metalworking lathe

[marcros]

I plan to buy a small lathe in the near future. I plan to mainly use it for turning pens of non ferrous metals, plastics and acrylic, although i would something capable of turning the odd bit of steel, should I need to do so. I really want MT2 in the tailstock so that I can use live centres from my wood lathe. I may want to do a bit of threading on it- the important bit is that the male and female threads match- whether this is imperial or metric does not really matter. I would prefer a used machine over a new one to get a bit more for my money. I do not need much capacity blanks are typically around 3/4"-1" diameter x 6" long.

I have my eye on a Myfold ML10, when a suitable one comes up for sale. The 7 is more common, but this is too big for me really. The advantage that these Myfords seem to have is the availability of spares and extras, plenty of knowledge online and the potential for conversion to CNC should i want to do so (unlikely).

If I do not go for this, and instead go for something else, am I likely to run into trouble should I ever need to get spares. if change wheels are missing, is that likely to be a huge issues if I needed to get one?

There was a nice looking Holbrook edgar on ebay a little while ago, which went for about half the price of a Myford- the downside of Myford being that you pay for it. too late now, but would something like that be a better buy, or best avoided? (assuming that anything that I bought was fully working and not badly worn)

 

[woodpig]

An ML10 would indeed be a good buy if you can get a nice one for a fair price. Spares are available for some of the more well known Chinese lathes like the Sieg range, can't comment on other makes. You don't need to cut the threads with a single point tool, you could just as easily use fine series Taps and Dies. Some of the Far East lathes have plastic gears in the head stock and it's not unknown for these to get stripped so I can't say I'm a fan of them. My 8x14 lathe sounds a bit big for your needs but all the gears are steel so no such issues there. I've also seen thread chasers used for pen making, albeit on plastic parts. Have a look at this:

http://youtu.be/-8jFLYwxMjI

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Marcros,
I have an ML7 which I bought second hand and although I didn't pay a huge amount for it, it does everything I ask of it and spares are available, if I had my time again I would have bought Chinese or a slightly less fashionable British brand like a Boxford.

For your pens I think you'd benefit from a higher top speed beyond that of the ML10 - which is the same as my ML7 at 850 RPM I think. Perhaps a Speed 10 would be ok but something like a SIEG 2 will do 2500 RPM with greased bearings rather than the plain bearings on the ML7 or ML10 that wee wee oil everywhere.

IMHO Myford engineering lathes are a bit like Record wood lathes. Antiquated and ok but really nothing special and other lathes are available ;-)

HTH
Jon

 

[marcros]

ok, thank you both for the advice.

I think that the later ML10s had a faster top speed and better bearings, but I could be wrong. But there is the challenge of finding one, and the decent ones fetch the money. I am certain that I do not want a fixer upper- i want something that is ready to use and not worn out. Fettling is different, and I expect to have to do some degree of this, whether I buy new or used.

It was the "other lathes are available" part that I was wondering about, but it is difficult to find information. lathes.co.uk is fantastic to find out about a model/make, but it doesnt work the other way for finding out about what is available by size.

I will have a look at some new models too.

 

[woodpig]

For new stuff look at the usual suspects, Warco, Axminster etc.

 

[niagra]

I have an ML10, it's a great machine. Taking account of its size, I can't fault it.

Dario

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Another recommendation to look to a Chinese lathe - I have a Warco mini lathe and it's been great. Plenty of tooling available.

With Myford there seems to be a cache of superiority which drives up prices, in my opinion, beyond the reasonable.

At the end of the day the result is dependant on the cutter used and the skill of the machinist more so than the machine.

Regards Mick

 

[timber]

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myfordminikop/page3.html

This is a lathe I believe that I used to own, I sold it to a young chap who was making flutes Have a read about it Three phase 3 speed very very quick ran like a sewing machine.
Timber

 

[Inspector]

I don't know much about the sizes of the lathes you are considering but will suggest you consider a little longer capacity, reason being you are only thinking of the pen blank length. You need to add up the length of the chuck that you are putting on the lathe. The length of the blank you are holding. Length of the drill bit and chuck holding it. Length of tap/die and tap/die holder if that is how you intend to thread. A little extra space to get in and out, like adding and removing those chucks and tap holders from the tailstock without bumping your blank. With my 13" x 37" Asian made lathe I am using almost half the length of the bed to make a pen. Admittedly the chucks etc., are bigger and therefor a little longer on my lathe than a small lathe has, but you will appreciate the extra working room. I would suggest something in the 10" x 22" size range. Or metric equivalent. :wink: As was suggested earlier by Jon, the faster speeds are desirable unless you plan on shaping and polishing on a second wood lathe. Another reason for a little larger lathe is the bore of the headstock shaft is bigger allowing your blanks and rods to fit inside. You don't have to waste material cutting it into shorter pieces to fit the small lathe and then have to toss the little bit held in the chuck. You can get more parts out of some of the precious materials that way.

Have fun
Pete

 

[monkeybiter]

This any good?

http://www.lathes.co.uk/taig/

[/http://peatol.com/url]

 

[dickm]

Probably not relevant, but it can be handy to have wood and metalwork lathes with the same nose thread for easy swapping of accessories. Hence my Mystro/super 7 combo. But that probably condemns you to Myford.

 

[chaoticbob]

Well, there's a Speed 10 advertised on the homeandworkshop at the moment for 845 pounds. I don't know if you would think that reasonable - I certainly wouldn't want to pay that. Whilst they're good lathes no doubt, prices for Myfords in general seem to have gone crazy since the demise of the Nottingham factory. 845 would buy you a new Chinese mini-lathe with all the gubbins (3 & 4 jaw chucks, steadies, thread dial indicator) and some left over. When I bought my first lathe (maybe 10 years ago) I fought shy of Chinese imports because of their poor reputation for quality, but I now have an Axi lathe and a Warco mill and actually they've been fine. So definitely worth considering new I'd say.
Robin.

PS - was alerted to dickm's post when submitting this - 'condemns you to Myford' - hmm, wouldn't have put it as strongly as that myself, but... :wink:

 

[marcros]

Probably not relevant, but it can be handy to have wood and metalwork lathes with the same nose thread for easy swapping of accessories. Hence my Mystro/super 7 combo. But that probably condemns you to Myford.

or alternatively, I have an er32 collet chuck for my wood lathe, so if i get similar for the metal lathe, then that should work out ok.

 

[marcros]

Well, there's a Speed 10 advertised on the homeandworkshop at the moment for 845 pounds. I don't know if you would think that reasonable - I certainly wouldn't want to pay that. Whilst they're good lathes no doubt, prices for Myfords in general seem to have gone crazy since the demise of the Nottingham factory. 845 would buy you a new Chinese mini-lathe with all the gubbins (3 & 4 jaw chucks, steadies, thread dial indicator) and some left over. When I bought my first lathe (maybe 10 years ago) I fought shy of Chinese imports because of their poor reputation for quality, but I now have an Axi lathe and a Warco mill and actually they've been fine. So definitely worth considering new I'd say.
Robin.

PS - was alerted to dickm's post when submitting this - 'condemns you to Myford' - hmm, wouldn't have put it as strongly as that myself, but... :wink:

and that is pretty much the problem that i have. the speed 10 would probably be idea, except in the value for money area.

 

[chipmunk]

Probably not relevant, but it can be handy to have wood and metalwork lathes with the same nose thread for easy swapping of accessories. Hence my Mystro/super 7 combo. But that probably condemns you to Myford.

or alternatively, I have an er32 collet chuck for my wood lathe, so if i get similar for the metal lathe, then that should work out ok.

If you have ER32 collets already, then you can make a chuck on the new lathe. All you need is a collet nut and spanner, although a C-spanner is also a good idea IMHO to get it off and to help unscrewing tight collet nuts. Harold Hall has a great set of instructions here... http://www.homews.co.uk/page131.html

As an alternative to being "condemned to Myford" you can make a threaded nose adaptor for your metalworking lathe using HH's instructions for the female form and then turn and thread the business end to match your woodlathe headstock. It's much easier to make one for the metalworking lathe than for the woodlathe. Alternatively, thread a Morse taper Blank-end arbour to suit your woodlathe which is what I did. You will need to use a draw-bar with this latter option but it'll work for light cuts or between centres.

HTH
Jon

 

[woodpig]

ER32 chucks are commonly available to fit Chinese metalworking Lathes and aren't too expensive. In fact I think the last time I looked a threaded version to fit my wood turning Lathe was more expensive!

 

[dickm]

Apropos my earlier post, the "condemned" comment was mostly tongue in cheek!
But following up the general idea, the stuff about the Taig/Peatol suggests that that uses the nearly standard wood lathe thread of 3/4 by 16 tpi, so for really small work it could be a good match for a larger Record wood lathe or similar.

 

[marcros]

The Siegs look good from what I have seen- they seem to have a slight edge on the comparable axminster ones, in that the siegs have a greater distance between centres, and there are plenty of upgrades available. The Sieg 2 seems to have been dropped by Arc, which is not to say that they cannot get it, but it isn't listed. The 3 is the top end of my anticipated budget, but is top of my list at present.

Another question, if I may. Imperial vs metric. I am unlikely to do much threading on it, but I would like to have the possibility. I will draw my own plans for what I am making, use digital calibers for measuring, which will do metric or imperial. i am torn, because i know what 14.5mm looks like to make a sketch, and work out the design, but for removing material, i prefer to think in thousandths. The imperial version seems to have a bit more versatility for thread cutting, but like I say this will be rare- most will be cut with taps and dies. The few taps and dies I have are metric, but I only have 5 or so.

 

[chaoticbob]

Marcos, like you I tend to think in thous for material removal, but all my machines are metric. It hasn't been a problem for me - a thou is 0.025 mm near as d. It's really only when it comes to screwcutting that you're going to find a big difference. Although you can cut metric threads on an imperial machine with the right changewheels, and vice versa, the thread indicator dial will be specific to the measurement system. This means that thread cutting in the 'other flavour', whilst possible, is more of a pain than it needs to be. I rarely need to cut imperial threads, hence my preference for metric leadscrews on my lathes.
Robin.

 

[chipmunk]

Have you looked at the Warco offerings?

I cut quite a few metric threads on my old imperial Myford and the only irritation is having to leave the drive train engaged and using the motor in reverse (not the tumbler) on the lathe to return to the start of each pass. Usually I'm only cutting fairly short threads and so this isn't really a huge issue. I also find a mandrel handle (home made of course) is invaluable for thread cutting whether single point, tapped or die cut.

HTH
Jon