Looking for a descent combination square

[mickthetree]

Hi All

I've got to a point where I need to get more accurate and am constantly reaching around for an accurate 45 degree angle that I can put my confidence in. I got a cheap tri square when I started out and I'm sure its not square.

Could anyone give me some guidance on a descent combination square? I've seen them for anything from 4 quid through to tens of pounds.

I've learnt to buy well and buy once and have lots of older tools so it doesn't have to be new if there are good old ones that come up.

Are there any particularly good makes / new or old to look out for?

Would quite like to get one that I can use a 12" and 6" rule in.

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[ByronBlack]

Starrett is about the best according to Chris Schwarz, costs a fortune though.

 

[Paul Chapman]

The all-metal engineers squares tend to be the most accurate. You can get them in 90 degree and 45 degree patterns and in various sizes. In my experience adjustable ones tend not to be very accurate unless you spend a lot of money - but even then I prefer the fixed ones.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MikeG.]

I have learnt never to trust that a square is square......and last time I bought one used this trick. I took a straight edge off the peg next to the squares.......then grabbed a handful of squares to try. I then offered them up back to back on the straight-edge, and with them fully extended failed both of them if there was the slightest gap. It didn't take long to find a pair that were spot on, and I bought one of those.

I know that there was a chance that I could have picked 2 squares with compatible errors.........eg 91 degrees for one and 89 degrees for the other....but you could soon eliminate that by further tests. You can of course also do this test for 45 degrees.

So , my general response is that it doesn't matter a jot about the brand. Try them out first, and even bargain bucket cheapies may prove to be square........and that is all you need from a square!

Mike

(edit.......Paul, my worst ever square was a fixed one.....beautiful and expensive but not square, and my favourite is an adjustable cheapie. You'd think it would be easy to make such a simple thing accurate!!!)

 

[Chris Knight]

Starrett or Moore and Wright are probably the best available. Rabone Chesterman are OK too if you can find them.

Tilgear used to do Starrett - I paid ca. £100 for one several years ago.

M&W are expensive too , see here http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalo ... sme12.html

 

[mickthetree]

Thanks all for your input. I was hoping I could pickup something descent for £30 or so including the protractor attachment. I'll certainly keep an eye out for those makers, but I'll also take Mikes advice on how to check for square.

I think my fixed square is accurate on one edge, but not the other. Guess when buying online you dont get the opportunity to try before you buy, and when starting out you dont know how to check these things.

I've carried out a test on a piece of melanine chipboard where I put the square on the edge, marked along its length, then turned it 180 degrees and compared it to the first line and it seems ok. Thinking about it, I'll try it tonight and extend the line with my straight edge. If it is out, it would show more over a longer distance. Sorry just thinking out loud really.

Thanks again all.

 

[lurker]

I would not trust a combination square no matter the "quality"

I use fixed ones and check them frequently

These are accurate & cheap

http://www.proopsbrothers.com/acatalog/ ... es_25.html

 

[Chris Knight]

Lurker,
Comparing the squares you link to with a Moore and Wright is like comparing a second hand Beetle with a Rolls Royce.

These expensive squares are guaranteed to a stated level of accuracy and it far surpasses what a cheap square can be expected to adhere to.

Having said that, I do agree that a cheap steel engineers square is likely to be fine for woodworking, although in my experience, the same is not true for the traditional style of wooden stocked squares.

 

[woodbloke]

the same is not true for the traditional style of wooden stocked squares.

Agree here Chris, except if you can get hold of the sort of square where the blade itself is a 90deg lump of steel and the handle riveted onto it. I think they were called 'Evertrue' squares, made by Marples... I had a couple yonks ago. They look exactly the same as an ordinary square, except that you can see the blade running completely through into the handle - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

the same is not true for the traditional style of wooden stocked squares.

Agree here Chris, except if you can get hold of the sort of square where the blade itself is a 90deg lump of steel and the handle riveted onto it. I think they were called 'Evertrue' squares, made by Marples... I had a couple yonks ago. They look exactly the same as an ordinary square, except that you can see the blade running completely through into the handle - Rob

I have one of those Marples squares, Rob - had it since the 1970s and it's the only tradional woodworking-style square I have that has stayed true. Pity they don't make them any more

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

I would not trust a combination square no matter the "quality"

Depends on the accuracy you need.

I don't think combination square are available (even from the premium brands mentioned) in any spec better than workshop 'B'.

Fixed (aka engineers) square go to 'AA'

(for interest A is often called "inspection" and AA "reference")

BugBear

 

[Ironballs]

Axminster do a very similar style of square, mine is brass faced with a wooden handle, blue blade that goes right the way through and is riveted in 3 places. Whether it's 100% bang on 90 degrees or not I don't know, but it's perfectly acceptable for woodworking - especially once I've been at said piece of wood with a saw and chisel

 

[Smudger]

Axminster do a very similar style of square, mine is brass faced with a wooden handle, blue blade that goes right the way through and is riveted in 3 places. Whether it's 100% bang on 90 degrees or not I don't know, but it's perfectly acceptable for woodworking - especially once I've been at said piece of wood with a saw and chisel

I know what you mean. A couple of degrees is nothing when faced with my sawing technique...

 

[mickthetree]

ha thanks all for your suggestions. I think a half descent combination square for general use and maybe an engineers square or two for accurate setting up will suffice.

Thanks all!!

 

[bugbear]

ha thanks all for your suggestions. I think a half descent combination square for general use

This looks like what you want:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -23288.htm

I suspect it's by PEC

Here's a thread:

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthread ... t=all&vc=1

Here's their site:

http://www.productsengineering.com/tool ... index.html

BugBear

 

[gidon]

Have a look at this old thread:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=10730
Cheers
Gidon

 

[custard]

I tried the Axminster one and wasn't impressed, I've also got one of the small Starrett ones with the more blocky style handle...that was another disappointment as it won't lock securely.

An accurate combination square is a real joy, chiefly because they're so versatile. But after thirty years of searching I've only found two that deliver. A very old and battered Moore & Wright that's consistently accurate against a bench grade M&W engineer's square, but even then it's not perfect because it's imperial only. And an eye wateringly expensive new 300mm Starrett. One thing to remember with all combination squares, you've got to keep checking them because it's so easy to get a speck of grit trapped under the datum anvil.

 

[Mr Ed]

I reckon your best bet for 'cabinetmaking' work are these type of engineers squares, which are relatively cheap for reasonable accuracy;

Because I like measuring tools, I have slightly strayed into tool-porn territory with this Colen Clenton square;

and this Chris Vesper Double Square with mini blade, which I love;

Now I know you were asking about combination squares, but for the money you would have to spend to get a really accurate one (Starrett for instance) you could have most of the fixed squares I have shown here and would probably have a more versatile set up.

Cheers, Ed

 

[wizer]

Where did you get that 45 degree square Ed? I'd quite like one of those.

 

[Mr Ed]

Its from Axminster, £14.25

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -23291.htm

Cheers, Ed