Loft Joinery Conundrum

[wizer]

Hi Guys

I want to utilise the loft space in the new house for storage and as a temporary office/study space. The house is 1930's construction and the loft joinery is getting in the way.

Firstly this beam runs along the centre of the loft making walking around impossible.

Is there any way I can remove this?

Also I would like to know if I can move these diagonal supports to make more usable floor area:

Finally, any suggestions on how to remove this from the loft

Angle grinder?

TIA

 

[wizer]

more loft pics here

 

[engineer one]

looks like a complete roof job, unless you can find some extra ways of replacing the knee joints with verticals that won't spread.

the cross stays also are to stop spreading, so you need to figure a way to hold it in the centre. the best idea is to talk to a local planner and see what he says.

as for the water tank, an angle grinder is not a bad idea, or some kind of
mechanical hack saw,to reduce the time. maybe one of those B&D scorpions.

paul :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

That should be possible, Wizer. It looks very much like the loft in our old house in which we had a loft conversion done. Won't attempt to advise how to do it because I'm not an expert, but it's quite straight forward.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS you will probably need to increase the size of the floor joists as well to deal with the extra weight of using it as a room.

 

[OJ]

Hi, need more info.
Are you on a terrace?
Have you got the cash to do a full job, is this your forever house?
Have other houses on the street of the same style converted?
Can you see any dormers. veluxes etc?
What is the height from top of ceiling joist to ridge board?
A few solutions present themselves but no half measures as far as I can see.
Don't cut anything out! Yet!
OJ

 

[wizer]

thanks guys

The house is a semi
There are a mixture of house styles in the road/area. I will have a look for dormers. I think there are other lofts converted.
This house is not forever, few years tops
I'll measure the height this afternoon

It's worth noting that although I am going to use this as a temporary area for my desk and PC, I am not intending it to be a full conversion/habital room. The main purpose is boarding out for storage and instalation of a new ladder & Hatch. This area will not get a lot of 'traffic'. It just would be nice for it to be a bit more open and moveable.

I am willing to have a word with a structural engineer if needed but this is low priority if too technical tbh.

Thanks again, I aprecieate the advice.

 

[WellsWood]

Hi Wizer

One of the first things you need to consider is the load bearing capabilities of the ceiling joists. Boarding over with 18mm chipboard to use the space for storage of empty Lie Nielsen boxes :lol: (and in about 3 years, dismantled cots) etc. is a very different affair to using the loft as a regular (habitable) room such as an office. The standard 4X2 joists used are just not up to the task of being walked on all the time along with the associated weight of furniture etc. and you could quickly find the ceilings below sagging/cracking or worse.
Normal practice is to hang new 8x2 joists in between the old ones which can support the load without transferring it to the ceiling. These aare often hung on galv. hangers attached to the supporting walls at either side of the loft, but it depends on the span. Longer spans obviously require deeper joists (if headroom allows) or support at some intermediate point usually involving steel.
One advantage of installin steels is that they can be positioned in such a way as to provide altenative support for the roof, enabling the removal of the "diagonal braces" (sorry don't know the tech term) and dramatically increasing the usability of the floor space.
One thing I would say above all else, don't mess about with any of the woodwork in your loft untill you have sought the opinion of a professional as it can have serious consequences.

Good luck
Mark

 

[sawdust maker]

Hi

I wouldn't use an angle grinder to cut up the tank. loft are very dry and dusty places and grinders make lots of sparks. You could end up burning the place down. But then you could get the insurance company to pay for the work :twisted:

I agree with the suggestion of talking to the Council, but it's Building Regs you need. If you don't get a certificate from them for the work, you will have real problems when it comes to selling the house.

Paul

 

[matt]

Re the tank... Perhaps a stupid question, but have you tried to take it down through the loft hatch? I contemplated was getting ready to chop up our galvanised tank only to find (surprisingly) that it fitted through the hole.

Is there not also a danger of fumes for galvanised metal when it gets hot (e.g. angle grinder)?

 

[JPEC]

Depending on the ridge height, if you bolt a 4"x2" cross member at ' ceiling height ' ( as long as this is no more than 3/4rs the height of the roof) to each and every pair of opposed rafters you can certainly remove the horizontal brace, and depending on where the purlin falls on the ceiling joists you can put a vertical stud wall below each purlin to negate the need for the diagonal braces. However you will need the advice of a stuctural engineer as to whether the joists will support the additional load! Almost certainly not. So bigger joists will probably be needed unless the purlins run directly above a supporting wall. (Chance in a million im afraid ).

Thats why loft conversions are rarely cheap!

Julian

 

[Keith Smith]

Definitely don't use an angle grinder in the loft, a metal blade in a jigsaw will cut the tank up.


It is incredibly noisy work though!

 

[OJ]

There are no easy fixes for this I'm afraid, especially if you need to sell your house in a couple of years. As mentioned, putting collars between each rafter couple would fix the height issue, but they are supporting the purlins. If your roof has been converted to concrete interlocking tile it will be carrying 3 or 4 times the weight of the original slates. If you could replace the purlins with larger ones or steel then you have a chance. If you are end of terrace, they would come in through the gable end. The party wall act will be envoked if put anything in the wall to next door (and it has implications for the fire spread between roofs to). Big purlins will suspend the ceiling/floor below if you like. It's a big job whichever way you choose to go. The timbers they've used are just about perfect size for the duty they've been asked to do, not much more. Sorry, O

 

[wizer]

Fantastic advise as usual guys. I think I have got my head around the issues. It's clear that there is a lot of work to be done to make this usable for anything other than storage. I'd still like to board it out and insulate it. But i'll forget about using it for anything else for now. Maybe next year if I really need the extra space, i'll consider beefing up the joists. It's also possible that we'll fully convert it for habitation in the future, in which case i'll get the pros in.

Not looking forward to fitting the new loft ladder though! :? :wink:

Thank You

 

[engineer one]

qvc advertise one which appears to be pretty easy to fit, and is space saving since it concertinas. at least it seemed to on the august 19th show.

paul :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

And when you have done it
Its very very hot in the summer,
and the winter is very very cold.
I've got a model railway in mine and after a short period the problem above arises.

 

[engineer one]

i always wonder why people don't use an air recirculation system to help with this.

a mate has always set up a system to draw air out of the attic back down to the bottom of the house taking advantage of the fact that hot air rises.
many older chimneys have unused chimneys so why not use them?

paul :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

i always wonder why people don't use an air recirculation system to help with this.

a mate has always set up a system to draw air out of the attic back down to the bottom of the house taking advantage of the fact that hot air rises.
many older chimneys have unused chimneys so why not use them?

paul :wink:

Trouble is that its cold air in the winter and you dont want it down.

and its hot air in the summer and you dont want it down.

 

[engineer one]

it is suggested that in many houses the air does not circulate enough, and by doing this properly you can actually save both money and energy :lol:

i understand what you mean mate, but it does work well.

paul :wink: