Le Tour de France

[Paul Chapman]

In case anyone is interested, the Tour de France cycle race starts tomorrow - well, you might be getting fed up with the football by now :roll:

Unfortunately it's been hit again with a drugs scandal, with the two favourites, Ullrich and Basso, being suspended - there's plenty about this on the BBC sport website if you want to read more. Great pity they haven't been able to nail the drugs problem in cycling, because it really sours one of the year's greatest sporting spectacles

Paul

 

[Shady]

Crikey - wouldn't have thought it of Ulrich...

 

[Paul Chapman]

Well he's been desperate to win it for a few years. Hope it proves negative but I doubt that they would have suspended him unless they were pretty sure. All very silly because it can kill you - remember Tom Simpson? At least in Tom's days they didn't fully appreciate the dire health consequences.

Paul

 

[johnelliott]

Perhaps it would be better if they just let these people take whatever drugs they like, it's been obvious for years that at the highest levels of athletics that virtual all the competitors are drug enhanced. It's just some are better at hiding it than others, or that they are able to get stuff that is to new to be picked up by tests.

john

 

[Noel]

As I see it Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich were guilty by association at this stage as a result of the ongoing Spanish drugs enquiry. It wasn't a case of positive specimens.
I see the Astana-Wurth's entry had been suspended because there were rumours of drug enhancement. They got back in on appeal.
Wonder if the Basso / Urlich suspension was timed so there was no possibility of appeal.
I don't think all of this is going to put a dampener on the actual race, actually leaves it more open. The prologue will be interesting if only for the re-habilitation of David Millar who races again after his 2 year drugs ban. The man doesn't need drugs, best cyclist to come out of the UK for many a long year (at least since his namesake Robert). Don't think Wiggins will do that well, not this year any way.
Sadly there's nobody from this side of the Irish sea to replace Roche or Kelly.
Poor Tommy Simpson, amphetamines hastened his callapse and later death whilst climbing Mt Ventoux.
Reckon it will be an American or Austrailan victory this year. Looking foward to listening to Phil and team again.

Noel, who has a passing interest in the TDF.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Sadly there's nobody from this side of the Irish sea to replace Roche or Kelly.

That victory by Stephen Roche in 1987 was brilliant - he put in some blistering performances in the mountains. When I think back to some of the great rides of all time I think Stephen's performance in that Tour is up there with the best of them :wink:

Paul

 

[wrightclan]

Sad to hear about Ulrich and Basso. I was looking forward to a showdown between the two, after Basso trounced everyone in the Giro, and Ulrich was on the rise toward the end of the Giro, then went on to win the Tour de Suisse.

I'm not as surprised as Shady about Ulrich. I know it's stereotyping, but Ulrich does come out of the pre-unification East German sports system. It's no secret that they weren't above using questionable performance enhancements. He was quite young at the time of unification, but had spent a number of years as a youngster in that system.

On the other hand, I'm not as cynical as johnelliott. I don't think they're all at it. Though it's getting harder to stave off that level of cynicism every day.

As far as Noel's comments about an American or Australian victory; I can't think of any Aussies up for the podium except in the sprints competition. Correct me, if I'm forgetting someone. If Ulrich or Basso were in it, I couldn't see an American getting the victory. I can think of a few who will likely be in the top ten. But their absence blows it wide open for a number of riders. Americans include Landis, Leipheimer, Julich, and Hincapie. Others might be Valverde (Spain), Mayo (Spain), Cunego (Italy), Salvodelli, (Italy), Simoni (Italy).

I was in a few races with Millar in the early '90's when he was about 14. He was phenomenal even at such a young age. Hard to say, how he'll fare after a two year lay-off.

Looking forward to the best sporting event in the world, just not as much as I was yesterday. :-k

Brad

 

[Noel]

Hey Brad, good insight. Australian wise I was thinking of Cadel Evans, maybe not a win but hopefully on the podium. You're right about Alejandro Valverde, great future ahead of him.
Since the days of Roche, Kelly, Robert Millar, etc it's difficult to keep up with the newer riders.
The likes of the most spectacular and maddest sprinter ever, Abdoujaparov (was it he that crashed into the Gendarme who was taking a picture, on the last stage in Paris) all elbows, Hinault, Van Poppel, Fignon, Jalabert and Virenque etc.
As Paul mentioned Roche catching Delgado (I think) on one of the climbs, collapsing and needing oxygen and Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen going hoarse.
Anyway, looking forward to the race and the drama.

Noel.

 

[neilc]

Sadly there's nobody from this side of the Irish sea to replace Roche or Kelly.

What about Mark Scanlon from my home town of Sligo. Give him another couple of years.

Neil

 

[Paul Chapman]

The likes of the most spectacular and maddest sprinter ever, Abdoujaparov (was it he that crashed into the Gendarme who was taking a picture, on the last stage in Paris)

Yes, he was a complete nutter, but talk about entertaining :shock: I often wonder whether that gendarme got his picture :roll:

Paul

 

[Shady]

As for nutters, whatever one thinks of him personally, that unbeliveable moment when Lance Armstrong left the road and shot off down a mountain track at full pelt, rejoining a few seconds later (wasn't it to avoid a pile up?), without appearing to miss a beat, was as supreme an example of courage and technical skill that I've seen for a few years...

 

[Paul Chapman]

As for nutters, whatever one thinks of him personally, that unbeliveable moment when Lance Armstrong left the road and shot off down a mountain track at full pelt, rejoining a few seconds later (wasn't it to avoid a pile up?), without appearing to miss a beat, was as supreme an example of courage and technical skill that I've seen for a few years...

Sometimes it's almost as scary as a dado blade :shock:

For anyone who wants to watch the prologue time trial, live coverage is on ITV3 at 1.30pm, British Eurosport at 2pm, with highlights on ITV4 at 7.30pm. However, the best bits come much later on in the Tour when they get to the mountains - I'll keep you informed 8)

Paul

 

[wrightclan]

Australian wise I was thinking of Cadel Evans, maybe not a win but hopefully on the podium.

Noel.

Yeah, I did forget about him. I don't know what it is, I've heard a lot of people saying he has podium potential over the past couple of years, and of course he got eighth last year. Maybe it's just that I still think of him as a mountain biker; but he's never made a huge impression on me for some reason. Of course he certainly has as good a chance as some of the riders I mentioned earlier (Simoni, Cunego, Mayo). One thing, not in his favour is the fact that it's less mountainous this year than in any Tour recently. Also, he doesn't have a team that's anywhere near as strong as a Grand Tour team as say CSC or Discovery.

Brad

 

[Noel]

The real TDF starts tomorrow with the mountains. Goodbye to the sprinters for a few days. Still haven't a clue who will come to the front. Maybe Evans although as Shady mentioned it's not going to be the most difficult of tours this year. Savoldelli of Discovery might be in with a shout as well as T-Mobile's Andreas Kloeden. But certainly the winner will be decided this week. No doubt there's a few others I've left out a few. Is Mayo a climber?

Noel

 

[Paul Chapman]

The Tour de France reaches the Pyrenees tomorrow - that should start sorting them out :lol: If you enjoy watching people on bikes suffer, highlights are on ITV4 at 7pm :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

I would rate George Hincapie of the Discovery Team as the Tour gets into the mountains. He was Lance Armstrong's right-hand man in all his Tour victories, so he has already proved himself to be a very strong and tactically aware rider. His mountain stage victory last year was not only superb but I sensed that he was putting down a marker, knowing that Lance was retiring, leadership of the Discovery Team was up for grabs and victory in this year's Tour was wide open. He also showed his determination, and not a little cunning, in winning the yellow jersey on stage one.

And he's a nice bloke 8)

Paul

 

[Noel]

Just watched tonight's programme, Mayo is a climber.
Agree with you Paul, Hincapie has had a good few years working with Armstrong but not sure about securing the lead for any lenght of time. Certainly may win a stage or two this week or in the Alps next week. Great to see Millar sitting in the 20s, although not sure how he'll fair over the next week or so. Evans and Mayo will come to the front (I hope).
Looking forward watching to the Hors Cat climb tomorrow.

Noel

 

[Paul Chapman]

Great to see Millar sitting in the 20s, although not sure how he'll fair over the next week or so.

Yes, I think David Millar has put in a terrific performance given that he has been out of competition for two years. It's really good to see him back and I hope that by the time they reach Paris he will have had a good Tour. I saw the interview with him the other night and I think he has shown great strength of character in coming back so strongly after reaching absolute rock bottom. I wish him well.

Paul

 

[StevieB]

Hmm, my gut feeling is that Hincapie is a great lieutenant, but possibly not a tour winner. Certainly for this year. I dont have him down as a great climber. Good yes, but not great. He was not besides Lance on every mountain stage last year, whereas Lance was in the lead group or out on his own as is necessary to take the jersey to Paris. Its a tough call this time round, with Vinoukourov, Basso and Ullrich all sidelined I would have to go with Mayo, with possibly a sneaky side bet on Cadel Evans to take a podium spot. Millar is not a moutain man and I can see him sliding back down the classification.

The pyrenees this time round are not as hard as the Alps later on, that is where I would expect the podium to be decided. For those that sit in front of a computer all day, Eurosport carry live commentary (if you can understand Sean :roll: ) and a good summary is Paul Sherwin and Phil Liggetts reports on OLN.com

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[wrightclan]

Hmm, my gut feeling is that Hincapie is a great lieutenant, but possibly not a tour winner. Certainly for this year. I dont have him down as a great climber. Good yes, but not great. He was not besides Lance on every mountain stage last year, whereas Lance was in the lead group or out on his own as is necessary to take the jersey to Paris. Its a tough call this time round...

Cheers,

Steve.

If I recall correctly, Hincapie was among the last of Lance's teammates to be at his side on most mountain stages last year. This was a marked change from previous years, when Hincapie was seen as a Classics specialist. There have been others who have made the transition from sprinter/strongman to all-rounder/stage racer. Jalabert, Kelly and of course Lance. OK, Lance made it in more spectacular style than Kelly or Jalabert; but they both won the Vuelta. and had high placings in the Tour. Jalabert also took the mountains classification in the Tour--not too many cyclists can claim winning both the green jersey and the polka-dot jersey in their career.

It's still hard to tell if Hincapie will make the full leap to Tour contender; but we did see a marked change in his capabilities last year and he is still in a relatively comfortable position in this Tour. But so are many others. Tomorrow should be the first real day for the pretenders to start falling away. As for Mayo; if he doesn't turn things around dramatically tomorrow, it looks like he has already started falling away. A very confusing Tour indeed; but the fog should start to clear tomorrow.

Brad