Joinery/carpentry apprenticeship advice please

[Dan-K]

Hi guys,

My little brother wants to be a joiner/carpenter and is planning to start a course in Cambridge this autumn after gcses. As part of this course he needs an apprenticeship and he has been pointed in the direction of a builders firm who do these. I just wonder if that route will give him a broad experience of the trade - it just seems a bit...restricted somehow. I'm not sure how much fine woodwork he will be doing!

I'd appreciate any advice/experiences from forum members. Perhaps I am worrying needlessly, but I know from experience how long and expensive it is to retrain after doing the 'wrong' training :roll:

Thanks

 

[wizer]

Well not that I'd know. But if it's a general builder then he won't be getting enough exposure to joinery IMO. He needs to be with a site chippie at least. I doubt you'll find an apprenticeship doing fine woodworking. But the experienced gained in being able to fit doors, locks, etc will do him good. The repetition is what will make him good at his trade. Once he's got that then he can go on to bigger and better things. Might be worth researching local firms and sending them a letter. They might not be currently on the scheme, but willing to take your brother on never the less.

Maybe Simon needs someone??

 

[slimshady]

Being upfront, I have no formal 'qualifications' but both my younger brothers went to Rover/BMW as electrical engineers. They have not regretted having formal training on/in the actual job. I would in all honesty recommend that you persuade him to get an apprenticeship with a company/person that actually did the trade that he is thinking of. I personally have helped on old (!) style oak timber-frames with a couple of local and national projects as a "helper". A fantastic experience. If only I know now, etc,etc.
I wish him well.
Alex

 

[JoinerySolutions]

As someone who has done an apprenticeship in carpentry & joinery, here are my thoughts.
To get a well rounded base for the craft the company your brother needs to find should:-
A/ have a joinery shop that also undertakes cabinet making types of work
B/ have a building side that undertakes new builds and extension works
C/ have a maintenance dept.

The company I started out with did and had it's own plumbing and painting crews too.
I spent time working on the maintenance side first learning how to repair and renovate and hang doors in wonky openings. Then on a housing estate, first and second fix carpentry with some formworkthrown in. A few days aiding dry liners and plumbers to get to know what these jobs entailed. Then I got to play in the relative warmth of the joinery shop and learn how to use the machinery (alongside making tea and running errands to the shop). College was fittted into all this, block release year one and day release the next two years.

Wish him well, I hope he finds a good firm to work with. Rob.

 

[Dan-K]

Thanks for the responses. I'm not sure exactly what the builders offer, but it sounds like my bro needs to ask some questions about their range of experience and perhaps look for a few other leads too. I'll pass this on to him.

Any further tips also appreciated

 

[Oryxdesign]

Does he live in Kent or Cambridge?

 

[head clansman]

hi

JoinerySolutions

As someone who has done an apprenticeship in carpentry & joinery, here are my thoughts.
To get a well rounded base for the craft the company your brother needs to find should:-
A/ have a joinery shop that also undertakes cabinet making types of work
B/ have a building side that undertakes new builds and extension works
C/ have a maintenance dept.

The company I started out with did and had it's own plumbing and painting crews too.
I spent time working on the maintenance side first learning how to repair and renovate and hang doors in wonky openings. Then on a housing estate, first and second fix carpentry with some formworkthrown in. A few days aiding dry liners and plumbers to get to know what these jobs entailed. Then I got to play in the relative warmth of the joinery shop and learn how to use the machinery (alongside making tea and running errands to the shop). College was fittted into all this, block release year one and day release the next two years.

Wish him well, I hope he finds a good firm to work with. Rob.

I totally agree with what you have said here, that was me 46 yrs ago, however my only doubt is finding such firms still trading like this nowadays although i'm sure or i should say i hope there is , look long and hard , very good luck to you I really hope you succeed. hc

 

[Dan-K]

Oryx, I wish he lived in Kent then you could fix him a decent education!

He's a hard-working lad, but unfortunately he lives up in Cambridgeshire and will be studying there...

And I agree JoinerySolutions suggestion about a suitable company does sound good - if there is one local to him...

 

[Oryxdesign]

Thanks Dan. I agree with JS too with the added caveat that people around him need to be forward thinking enough to give him a chance.
Simon

 

[wizer]

It's essential to get this right or it could effect his whole career path. Even if he has to travel out of town a bit, it will pay him back. If he gets the wrong firm where no one really cares about what they are doing, it could disillusion him into thinking that that's the norm in the business. If you find a firm who takes pride in it's work and promotes that to it's staff then he will get a proper grounding. Make up a letter with a CV and send it to firms you think could be right. Even if at first they say they don't take apprentices. Persevere to get yourself in the door.

 

[Chems]

Have a look at Apprenticeships.org.uk

 

[chippy1970]

I served my time with Wimpey homes and I turned out alright :wink:

I did my apprenticeship in the late 80's with a large building firm and spent most of those 4 years on one big site and at college obviously. I picked up quiet a bit on site and when at college I learnt all I needed about the workshop side of things too. The only thing I would say about large companies like Wimpey I found is that they lay most of their apprentices off at the end of their time, which suited me as I got a job straight away with the subby and have been self employed ever since.

 

[dexter]

My apprenticeship was similar to Joinery solutions and Head Clansman, It was in what would now be called Public sector/Local authority where they had the whole range of building trades under one roof. In those days the joiner would go and measure up the job be it doors, windows or cabinet work or anything else for that matter, make it in the shop and then fit it on site. Sadly as HC has said, I think those days are long gone. My advice would be to get the carpentry and joinery qualifications first, It will give him a good grounding in the trade and if he then wants to move onto finer woodworking as you put it then his previous experience should stand him in good stead.
I wish him the very best of luck.

Dex

 

[BradNaylor]

A joinery apprenticeship with a general building firm sounds ideal to me.

A good grounding in site joinery together with experience of allied trades such as dry-walling, kitchen fitting, and basic plumbing will stand him in very good stead for earning a good living for the rest of his life.

Life on building sites is also very 'character-forming!' :lol:

If he wants to get into fine carpentry or cabinetmaking he can do that later.

 

[Anonymous]

hi guys

im divided on my opinion about this?

i did a very traditional joinery apprenticeship, i absolutely hated it for the first year.

I sanded maple lourvers by hand, starting with 60 grit paper finishing with 240grit, i did this for 3 months, but this isn't what i solely did, i fetched the sandwiches and made the tea, oh then i had to sweep up at 4pm everyday.
Then thursday was sharpening day i used to grind and sharpen everyones tools upstairs with a guy called Ron. it was so boring, i felt like i wasn't learning a single thing, 6 months totally wasted or so i thought. i know the art of sanding down to a fine finish perfectly, i can also sharpen my chisels to a razor blade quality that lasts.

i then spent 1 day a week in the veneer shop 1 day a week in the machine shop, then 3 days in the joinery shop. In my final year i spent 6 months in the spray shop learning how to finish what i had made.

Perfection was all that was expected from me, if i didn't do it right i got a right rollicking.

Anyway i went into to shopfitting after that and i was rubbish, because for my perfectionism i just wasn't quick enough the maxim being, slap it on the decs with fill and paint it. This was totally alien to me, but i had to drop my quality massively to survive it pained me tbh. but unfortunatly this high speed low quality work pays over treble what i would get as a joiner (i do an extra 4 hours a day for that though)

Anyway what i am trying to get at, is if your brother wants to be a fine woodworker, he needs to start off that way and work his way down (see what i did there) if he wants to make good money. Once you have learned how to do it properly you will never forget. i haven't.

So imho i would avoid the builders, and find a traditional joinery shop to work in if thats possible?!

regards

mark