Japanese chisel newbie question

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What did you think I thought you would think I thought who's though it was?

I think that is a great tongue-twister, seriously PP you really know how to confuse the issue!

Seriously though, I think some of your sly attacks on alf in the post are somewhat un-called for, and your implied condemnation of sheffield laminated steel as 'English Industrial Junk' shows as much ignorance on your part as you in someways tend to imply of others.

And as an aside, I don't see anyone 'slag the small shop artisan'.

But maybe a person who really can't tell the difference between expert hand work and machine stamped garbage, who really is "tone-deaf", should just keep quiet about it.

I'm sorry peter, but that is just rubbish. You don't know fully Alf's experience or competence so to imply that she might not know the difference between good work and 'machine stamped garbage' again shows a somewhat ignorant attitude on your part. And more importantly, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion whether they maybe expert or not.
 
Peter,

I would be the first one to buy you a cup of coffee (or would you prefer tea?) and sit and jabber away the day concerning wood work. I would love it I'm sure.

So take this in that spirit. You often do not make a lot of sense. Perhaps I'm slow. You make a lot of pronouncements in a "voice" that says only you have the answers, that only your choice of tools is right.

This is the last of my posts on this subject.

I wish you the best and perhaps one day I can buy you a cup of your favorite beverage and we can sit and talk.

Take care, Mike
 
Putting on my mod's hat I reckon there is a danger of folk getting off the topic in this thread and into areas we would rather not explore. I should like to suggest enough has been said.
 
Sheesh, I miss all the good stuff while I'm asleep... :roll:

I freely admit there's a whole heap more stuff I don't know than stuff I do. I'm pretty sure that fact is clearly displayed on a regular basis, whether I intend to or not! :lol: Unfortunately I have a low tolerance threshold for anyone giving the impression that they know everything, intentionally or not. It's probably another character flaw of mine. Mike put it better than I, anyway.

It's important we all remember what we write may be taken as gospel truth by someone else; we've gotta be sure of what we're saying, have facts to back it up, or make it clear it's just opinion. Otherwise forums like this can become useless 'cos we won't know what advice to trust. (and my apologies; slipped into a bit of a forum ethos mode there. I'll get me coat. :oops:)

Cheers, Alf
 
Hi guys and gals !

Don't underestimate the value of the occasional "disagreement" in a forum such as this!!
I, for one, find it interesting and informative. It makes clear the various sides of opinion and issues and I value the forum members who take the time to post their thoughts. I don't think any do so with bad intent although the written word can sometimes seem harsher than the spoken word. Of course, there is no room for directed rudeness.

I also value the moderators who have a difficult time in keeping things from getting out of hand - thanks and well done mods !

Back on the subject of chisels - having read through this thread, I will skip the Japanese and a set of Kirschens are now on my Christmas list. :)
For me the real challenge is to sort out my sharpening technique. :oops:

Cheers

John
 
John, I really don't think you'll be disapointed with kirschens, I really like them, hence i'm finding it hard to justify using a Japanese chisel in favour of them as it would mean changing my technique in quite a few ways, but i've orded a dovetail chisel to test out though.

If it helps, my personal sharpening technique for the kirschens was this:

1. Flatten the backs, I was lucky and most of them had a very slight hollow which made flattening them very quick and easy.

2. I used an 800 grit Japanese water stone to flatten the back and then to hone the bevel

3. Moved it onto a 6000 grit waterstone to polish both sides, and then used a leather strop inpregnated with fine talcum powder to get a mirror finish.

I did find however that it took about two or three sharpenings to get them razor sharp, but since then they've held their edge really well.

PeterPan - am I right in thinking that you are condemning all of sheffield laminated steel as 'english industrial junk' or have I mis-read you?

First I'm not entitled to my opinion, now everyone is. Make up your mind.

To be fair peter, i've never said at anytime nor do I believe anyone else has said you aren't entitled to your opinion. AND we are all passionate about hand-tools, but you do sometimes come across with a sense of self imposed superiority that can make it seem others aren't 'qualified' enough to argue with you as we aren't all artisan tool-makers.

But saying all that, I want you to realise this is just a discussion forum, and i've enjoyed reading your posts greatly whether i've agreed with them or not and I want to re-iterate what I said in another thread, and that I appreciate your contribution, and somewhere in there, there is information that is both interesting and useful. :lol: :lol:
 
John,

Any particular reason for choosing Kirschens?. Just wondered as it's been mentioned they have a relatively chunky side profile. Have you considered Ashley Isles?. The sides are nice and slim - perhaps a little better for doing the dovetails?

Just a thought. I'd class Kirchsens, AI etc all as 'good' quality (compared to the plastic-handled, chrome-vanadium brands). I do so like the handles on the AI's though (except for a spot of bother with ferrules, which AI are sorting out for me).

Flatten the backs, I was lucky and most of them had a very slight hollow which made flattening them very quick and easy.

2. I used an 800 grit Japanese water stone to flatten the back and then to hone the bevel

3. Moved it onto a 6000 grit waterstone to polish both sides, and then used a leather strop inpregnated with fine talcum powder to get a mirror finish.

I did find however that it took about two or three sharpenings to get them razor sharp, but since then they've held their edge really well.

Click! Exactly how I've sharpened the AI's and the results are spot on for me too.

cheers,

Ike
 
ByronBlack":25fxj0ud said:
I did find however that it took about two or three sharpenings to get them razor sharp, but since then they've held their edge really well.
A similar comment came up on WC today/yesterday, although not in relation to the Kirschens:
James Watriss":25fxj0ud said:
Dollar for dollar, for the steel you get, the swiss made chisels are an amazing bargain. You may have to grind back a little bit, because I think they buff some of the temper out of the blades when they polish them. I had issues with them at first, and that was something I was told by someone in relation to their carving gouges... that sometimes you had to go back a little bit to get to the "good steel." it held true, and now those chisels take a pretty damned good edge. For the money, that's really hard to beat.
Of course it brings up another alternative to consider: Pfeil.

Happy to help, John. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 
ike":1r1spu6h said:
John,

Any particular reason for choosing Kirschens?. Just wondered as it's been mentioned they have a relatively chunky side profile. Have you considered Ashley Isles?.

Ike

Hi Ike, its a difficult one - I think I prefer the profile of the Kirschens but its not a scientific judgement. :oops: The main thing is a chisel that will hold it's edge better than my existing Marples.

Bryon, thanks for the sharpening advice - I'll use your technique and see how I get on!! :)

John

(whose hand dovetails are more like rats tails!)
 
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