It's jimi's fault (not really)

[Jack in Nepean]

I seldom post on this forum, since the breadth and depth of knowledge here is tremendous - far exceeding my limited knowledge. I have learned a lot herein and it is with jimi's indirect encouragement, I bit the bullet yesterday.

Having used a Sauer and Steiner coffin infill a few years ago (it was the start of that famous slope) I have lusted after one of Konrad's planes. Not having won the lottery lately, S&S are still out of the picture. I heard about a local tool collector and dealer and spoke to him on the weekend. Monday, I met with him in his Aladdin's cave of wonders and came home with this:

"http://s797.beta.photobucket.com/user/jackinnepean/media/Coffininfill_zps5797c8a7.jpg.html"

No name, est. 1860-1880, marples warranted cast steel hibernia blade (unlikely original), dovetailed, wt.3lb 6 oz/1.54kg./length 6 7/8 in./ 175 mm. Infill is Brazilian rosewood according to the seller (known to be reliable). It has been well cared for, with some rust pitting but nothing serious. Sole was flat (less than 5 min. on surface plate to remove ink markings). A bit more than I had planned on spending (heard that before?) but I think worth it.

I hope the picture link comes through. Thanks for looking

Jack

 

[Alex H]

If you use the 'IMG code' from photobucket, then the picture will appear in your post

 

[bugbear]

Sole was flat (less than 5 min. on surface plate to remove ink markings).

A fellow surface plate and bluer! How did you remove the metal - you can't (easily...) scrape steel.

How thick is the blade? The mouth looks a bit more open than you might dream of in the photo, so the blade might be a thinner-than-the-original replacement.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Very nice and very useful!

You do need a few more for a complete set though ...

 

[jimi43]

I have no problems at all being blamed for your starting on this slope....it is a wise one! =D>

Nice little dovetailed coffin smoother...and the iron is old but probably not original as others have said but you can easily get replacement parallels when the time comes.

It reminds me that I really have to do a proper job on the front tote of my little one...

This has a Sorby iron...and a bit thicker bringing the edge closer to the front of the mouth...

...with still some way to go. Still...it shaves well...

No-name ones are almost certainly supplied to dealers to add their markings (eg Tyzack) but they are all really good quality. Brazilian rosewood indicates quite old and fine...

Just rub the wood with beeswax every so often and use with the knowledge that long ago...some craftsman cut those dovetails and some proud owner paid a fortune to own it.....now...the panel plane! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Jack in Nepean]

Bugbear - the blade is about 4.5 mm thick at the business end, tapering to 3 mm at the other end. It's 50.5 mm wide at the at the business end, tapering ever so slightly to 49.1. I will keep my eyes open for a thicker blade. I did try the Veritas A2 blade and cap iron from my No. 4 with limited success. The lever cap screw was too close to the slot for the adjuster in the cap iron for comfort.

The surface plate is a Grade B black granite Chinese product - 12" x 18"x 3" thick - heavy enough, I think, and as flat as I can measure with my Veritas aluminum straight edge. They are readily available here in Canada - mine was about $30 Cdn. I am led to believe they are much dearer on your island. Mathew at WH might consider bringing a load of them from China, however an offcut from a granite work top might work as well. I don't use bluing but a felt tip marker - cross hatch the sole and a sheet of 150 grit 3x sandpaper stuck to the plate with a few spritzes of water. Less than 5 min. and all markings were gone - what a relief. I may polish it up a bit just for smoothness on some finer paper when I have nothing else to do.

The mouth is a bit larger than what I would have preferred, but it was the pick of the litter. I do, however, think that with a bit of veneer held in place with a very thin double sided tape I can close it up some. Nothing permanent. I may even try to raise the angle with a wedge from 45 to perhaps 50 or 55 degrees. Again, not in any way that could not be easily reversed.

A bit of conservator's wax with fine steel wool got rid of the majority of the ubiquitous white paint and the rosewood just glows - polished by how many calloused hands.

Jimi, I don't think I'll be following you down the infill slope anytime soon. My stable of fettled Stanleys and superb Veritas bevel up planes are serving me very well. I'm not a collector, I just have a number of planes from which to select. That's my story anyway.

Given the wide mouth, it may never match my Veritas bevel up smoother on gnarly grain, but it is a thing of beauty and a joy to use (once I get the knack of setting the iron just so).

I should note that I live a long stone's throw from the Veritas manufacturing plant, have many friends who work for LV, so I am somewhat partial to their products.

Thank you all for the vast amount of hand tool information that this forum makes available - it is an invaluable resource to the hand tool users of the world.

Cheers from Canada

Jack

 

[adzeman]

I seldom post on this forum, since the breadth and depth of knowledge here is tremendous - far exceeding my limited knowledge.

I post on this forum because of the tremendous breadth and depth of knowledge available. Each time I do I come away with something new and even when I dont post it still makes interesting reading just as your post is generating.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

A couple of thoughts on surface plates, and using them for the flattening of plane soles.

Surface plates come in two main materials, cast iron and granite. Cast iron is usually a bit cheaper, but granite doesn't form burrs if something gets dropped on it, and it doesn't rust. They can be obtained in sizes ranging from a few square inches, to big enough to park a lorry on - smaller ones sometimes have handles so that they can be offered up to the job, larger ones are usually set on a rigid stand at about bench height, and sometimes referred to as 'surface tables' or 'marking-out tables'. There are three grades; Workshop, Inspection and Calibration (the degree of flatness increases with grade, as does the price). 'Proper' ones come with a Calibration Certificate showing conformity to the relevant specification. For a granite plate 18" x 12" x 3" of Inspection grade, expect to pay about £300 or so.

For workshop and modelmaking use, uncertificated granite plates are available at very modest cost. Whilst pretty flat, it's probably wise to regard these as 'there or thereabouts' rather than assume them to be dead flat (note - nothing is 'dead flat', not even Calibration grade plates, though they get closer than other grades).

For someone using them to 'blue' the sole of a plane, set the plane up in working condition, and back the iron inside the mouth of the plane. Then blue by holding the handles as for normal planing. To remove the high spots, use an engineer's flat scraper on cast iron.

I've never tried this, but for a steel-soled plane, I'd try a dead smooth flat file (the sort that has a slight belly in it's length) used with care and a little finger pressure on the blued bits. To finish, it might be worth trying abrasive paper stuck to file-shaped pieces of wood, again with a slight belly in their length (and maybe width, too). That would allow you to concentrate abrasion locally, without affecting low spots.

I suspect this method would require some patience to be really successful; you'd only need to do it once per plane per working lifetime, though!

 

[Waka]

Jack

Welcome to the infill slope.
Like you I had Vertitas and LN, then changed over to Infills. I don't know what it is about them, but it made me sell all my LN and Veritas planes.

 

[Jack in Nepean]

An update on this saga (hopefully not another slope).

After a conversation with Konrad, I checked the flatness of the bed (it was very good), polished the sole a bit and noticed a very slight depression just in the front of the mouth. Back to the surface plate with 60, 150, 600, 1000 and finally 2000 paper and the depression is gone (as far as these old eyes of mine can tell).

A couple of temporary cardboard shims on the bed to close up the mouth to about 7 thou, a further polish on the face of the blade to remove some of the earlier scratches that were causing some minor chips in the edge and another honing up to the green polish compound, some practice setting the blade (they are a bit fussier than wooden planes) and WOW - consistent 1-3 thou shavings with minimal effort on tame cherry and very good results on a piece of somewhat gnarly walnut - no tear (chip) out around a large knot. It's coming around now - light at the end of the tunnel.

Two reliable sources indicate that Veritas will be offering PMV11 blades for infills in the next few months - something for your disposable income jimi and Waka.

I really hope that this is not the start of another slope Waka. This plane is not yet up the standard of my BU smoother (but it is much nicer looking) or my first shop made wooden plane, but it is getting very close. It's beginning to feel good in my hands too. Just a little bit more polish, practice, patience, etc. It's a game of small increments now - wish I wasn't so d_mn fussy now. Once you start getting very good results with planes and scrapers, you can never be satisfied with what used to look good.

Cheers

Jack


P.S If you can check the cover of the latest LV woodworking catalogue (February supplement http://www.leevalley.com/en/home/OnlineCatalogs.aspx, you will see some chairs made by Konrad.

 

[Jack in Nepean]

A bit of an update - I swapped out the Marples blade for a Ward on similar vintage, changed the way I held the plane in use and quit pushing down - let the tool do the work as it were. Big difference - sub thou shavings as per DC with almost no effort. I think it now matches my BU smoother. With this result I was like a 4 year old on Christmas morning - so excited.

Cheers

Jack

 

[jimi43]

You've hit the sweet spot with infills Jack...the way you use them is different from Bailey styles and others...different from woodies which are also unique in their use.

Getting used to the proper action comes with practice...and with me...accumulation of a number of them before I let them use their weight for the effort.

I find that certain steels (WARD in particular) work well with infills for some reason...and the QS water quenched T10 does too. Don't ask me why this is.

Infills are like niche sports cars...once you fall in love with them you become defensive of any criticism of them....even if they break down every mile and spill Camellia Oil all over the floor! :mrgreen:

You may find that this slope for you is just beginning...no bad thing mate! 8)

Jimi