Identify this bandsaw!
- Thread starter Jameshow
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Ttrees
Iroko loco!
@Jameshow I ain't Van Huskey if you were wondering.
I've only got the one saw, and was chasing my tail regarding fixing it up,
hence my interest, since I've been studying Centauro and other manufacturers
whilst repairing practically everything on my old machine, doing tests and mythbusting
lots of rubbish out there regarding bandsaws.
Not too familiar with this one though, you might have to ask owners of the Laguna LT16
to find out, should a manual not be found.
Sawmill Creek would be the place you'd find owners.
Might also be worth noting the tables could differ like the SNA models, Laguna's having a deeper slot spec'd for overseas.
Not really seen under any Centauro CO machines, (seemingly same design)
to spot what the third bolt might be for...
Could it be for...
Table leaf alignment, or a 90 degree stop for a level table comes to mind.
I've not seen any other options of fences on Italian saws, and never seen a bolthole for no reason either.
Hope that helps
Tom
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Unsure of what kinda leccy supply you've got,
and not sayin yer sparkey wouldn't be able to get it running...
but without being prepared for the job, I reckon something like this might be the best they can do for ya.
Here's Louis Sauzedde jump starting his band saw
Jameshow
Established Member
I've just realised that a 240 415v motor is actually a 3ph only motor. I presumed the 240v was single phase?? Correct?
So I probably need to find a 240g single phase motor if the one I have ( gryphon) dosent fit??
So I probably need to find a 240g single phase motor if the one I have ( gryphon) dosent fit??
The motor is dual voltage but always 3 phase. Being dual voltage makes it a lot easier to run from a vfd though as whilst you can get them that can increase the voltage too they cost more.
To use the motor you can’t just change it to a household plug.
You’d need an inverter/vfd that is matched to the power of the motor and then to change the wiring in the motor so that it matches what it says on the wiring diagram on the plate for 240v.
The sparkie will hopefully help and the recommended how to guide on motors is well worth reading
To use the motor you can’t just change it to a household plug.
You’d need an inverter/vfd that is matched to the power of the motor and then to change the wiring in the motor so that it matches what it says on the wiring diagram on the plate for 240v.
The sparkie will hopefully help and the recommended how to guide on motors is well worth reading
Jameshow
Established Member
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
If the RPM and pulley matches on the Gryphon, (which presumably is more powerful)
and there's enough of a shaft length to accommodate it,
and the pulley is a good fit on the shaft, then that might be viable....
It might be the case that the setup of this bandsaw with flange mounted motor might have the pulley very far out from the shaft, and is an extremely tight fit,
and it might not be possible without a lot of work to "let in" a different shaped motor into the frame,
and even then hoping the shaft might have enough length for the pulley to line up.
It's a long way to go about it.
I'd just buy a VFD which is capable for an upgrade laterz, i.e along the lines of 3hp/2.2kW
Some of the cheapies don't have a de-rating of hp function to suit your existing motor, so best to get one known, be it one of the cheapies, or a fancier brand.
Shouldn't be any bother with posting a link to what you'd be looking for,
theirs likely a lot being advertised out there starting about 100 quid for the ones what's not
micro sized, those often have an exposed aluminum heat sink at the back,
so make sure its got measurements of the "regular" dimensions, in-case you might get shafted.
So hundred quid for the VFD/inverter
Three quid for a start push button, four quid for a mushroom stop push button
Some cable glands if you've got some, whatever they cost in the leccy,
Some terminal connectors, two quid a pack.
If you don't have a metal box, then you might need to fold one up.
I bent some sheet metal sides to slip into an old exit sign, whats very nearly the recommended size for air circulation, though it was a bit of a squeeze to fit the thing into.
Not much more needed really.
edit: might as well show you what I mean.
Pretty simple to hook one up as you can see...
The 240v supply is the live and neutral on the left,
The three "hots" to the motor on the right,
These can store lethal voltage after being unplugged, so if needing to touch'em, you'd need to wait a bit for it to drain off, and go in for the dinner.
You may need to re-arrange any two of the three interchangable hots, if the wheel
(without blade installed!) runs backwards.
(I could add the earth from the household plug, and the earth from the motor are stacked
and it would be better if they were stacked/bolted to the enclosure, and another short bit to
fit into the small VFD earth terminal thereafter.
(these common type of crimp connectors with "eyes" and not the forked type, so a bolt can go through and they wont budge.
So no touching those wires.!
No plug in-between motor and VFD.
Learn wot the parameters do (motor commands)
There's about 15 to learn, ie very important in relation to motor speed,
as you don't want to cook yer motor running at a possibly factory default setting of 400hz to suit high speed CNC spindles.
50hz is what motors should be run at in UK, as will be written on anything electrical you own.
The start and stop buttons, (or simply one toggle switch) can then be wired in,
and those aren't dangerous, barely any power in those, probably something like yer AA or whatever ones in an alarm clock.
You can check things are working beforehand without installing those wires into the switch
Just sayin don't sweat it, learn the parameters you need to learn,
Be a good idea to go on fleabay to find cheap buttons, as they may take a while to arrive.
Plenty of posts here about that.
You can find and download Bob's Induction motor PDF document under his handle "9fingers"
on "the other place".
You won't find a better write up on the subject, which starts off in the predicament you are in,
and will open your eyes to a world of excellent stuff for cheap...
which evidently you know already.!
And finally a quote from Mr Forsberg
"Everyone knows real machines are three phase"
Jackenglishmachines
All the best
Tom
and there's enough of a shaft length to accommodate it,
and the pulley is a good fit on the shaft, then that might be viable....
It might be the case that the setup of this bandsaw with flange mounted motor might have the pulley very far out from the shaft, and is an extremely tight fit,
and it might not be possible without a lot of work to "let in" a different shaped motor into the frame,
and even then hoping the shaft might have enough length for the pulley to line up.
It's a long way to go about it.
I'd just buy a VFD which is capable for an upgrade laterz, i.e along the lines of 3hp/2.2kW
Some of the cheapies don't have a de-rating of hp function to suit your existing motor, so best to get one known, be it one of the cheapies, or a fancier brand.
Shouldn't be any bother with posting a link to what you'd be looking for,
theirs likely a lot being advertised out there starting about 100 quid for the ones what's not
micro sized, those often have an exposed aluminum heat sink at the back,
so make sure its got measurements of the "regular" dimensions, in-case you might get shafted.
So hundred quid for the VFD/inverter
Three quid for a start push button, four quid for a mushroom stop push button
Some cable glands if you've got some, whatever they cost in the leccy,
Some terminal connectors, two quid a pack.
If you don't have a metal box, then you might need to fold one up.
I bent some sheet metal sides to slip into an old exit sign, whats very nearly the recommended size for air circulation, though it was a bit of a squeeze to fit the thing into.
Not much more needed really.
edit: might as well show you what I mean.
Pretty simple to hook one up as you can see...
The 240v supply is the live and neutral on the left,
The three "hots" to the motor on the right,
These can store lethal voltage after being unplugged, so if needing to touch'em, you'd need to wait a bit for it to drain off, and go in for the dinner.
You may need to re-arrange any two of the three interchangable hots, if the wheel
(without blade installed!) runs backwards.
(I could add the earth from the household plug, and the earth from the motor are stacked
and it would be better if they were stacked/bolted to the enclosure, and another short bit to
fit into the small VFD earth terminal thereafter.
(these common type of crimp connectors with "eyes" and not the forked type, so a bolt can go through and they wont budge.
So no touching those wires.!
No plug in-between motor and VFD.
Learn wot the parameters do (motor commands)
There's about 15 to learn, ie very important in relation to motor speed,
as you don't want to cook yer motor running at a possibly factory default setting of 400hz to suit high speed CNC spindles.
50hz is what motors should be run at in UK, as will be written on anything electrical you own.
The start and stop buttons, (or simply one toggle switch) can then be wired in,
and those aren't dangerous, barely any power in those, probably something like yer AA or whatever ones in an alarm clock.
You can check things are working beforehand without installing those wires into the switch
Just sayin don't sweat it, learn the parameters you need to learn,
Be a good idea to go on fleabay to find cheap buttons, as they may take a while to arrive.
Plenty of posts here about that.
You can find and download Bob's Induction motor PDF document under his handle "9fingers"
on "the other place".
You won't find a better write up on the subject, which starts off in the predicament you are in,
and will open your eyes to a world of excellent stuff for cheap...
which evidently you know already.!
And finally a quote from Mr Forsberg
"Everyone knows real machines are three phase"
Jackenglishmachines
All the best
Tom
Last edited:
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Here's a thread which might be of interest, though there are plenty of threads regarding Startrite 275's if you look, as they also have dual voltage 3 phase motors, so are easy to hook up to a VFD.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/3-phase-to-single-phase-startrite-275-conversion.91106/
Tom
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/3-phase-to-single-phase-startrite-275-conversion.91106/
Tom
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
One more attempt at persuasion I'll try, as I don't wish to "bully" anyone,
but getting strong vibes of this is all way too complicated to even bother with,
rather than outright that won't fly for my situation, for whatever reason, I can't think of TBH.
Perhaps there's a bit of a sting to paying more for a little box of clever electronics,
than the machine,
If so, then I urge you to look at the cost of one of these Italian beauties, just for perspective.
Though the knowledge of being easily able to power something simple
like your bandsaw (it's only got the one motor) is kinda like the Mastercard advert.
I tried finding a good article that I've read before, which explains this very simply,
as I believe it's against the rules to give a link to the "rival" UK forum,
(that's where Bob resides, and the freely available induction motor document will be under his signature)
Unfortunately google images only comes up with super complicated stuff, and I can't find something simple like on the article mentioned.
Let's see what your motor will likely look like perhaps...
Pop off the lid, and you'll see six terminals and an earth or ground.
Note the three brass "straps"
If you see them like so, then the motor is ready to rock.
(configured to low voltage Delta, 240v that is.)
If it looked like there were only two brass straps, then those will be orientated
across instead, with the third strap stacked on top of another, which is for 400v.
You can't really do this wrong on these motors.
Now you've seen the Delta low voltage configuration, let's learn some parameters.
This motor should look fimiliar, I believe some lucky bar steward won it at auction for sixty odd quid, fair price for a motor I suppose...
Not to mention, that it came with an Italian bandsaw attached!
Jeepers look, it even gives instructions on how to configure it to Delta, well I'll be darned!
It's a 50hz motor, so suitable for most of the world, (apart from America, which needs 60hz motors)
that's a parameter.
We see it's got 1.1 Kw of oomph, or 1.5 horsepower, that's a parameter.
We see "2" so we know it's a "two pole motor"
We would know it's a two pole motor anyway, as the speed is close to 3000 RPM,
actually 2790 in this case. (four pole motors run at half this speed, and have larger pulleys)
I digress...but that's a parameter.
We can see beside the Delta illustration, that at 240v, it uses 3.9 amps, that's a parameter.
So depending on what VFD, you get....some don't give the option of entering the amps,
and as said buying one rated for larger motors, it's necessary to know that parameter is available with a known unit, to give the motor what amperage suits.
They constantly have new ones coming out all the time.
That stuff above is about six parameters to enter.
It might look more like this in the booklet when you jog it down on the back of the cover
Max Frequency, 50hz
Min Frequency, 50hz
Some other Frequency parameter may be required, which will again be 50hz
Motor power, 1.1Kw
Amps 3.9
Motor pole number, 2
Voltage, 240
And the rest is easy peasy...
Factory default, yes, (this is the first thing to do)
Reverse rotation disabled, yes.
Ramp up time/Acceleration, I believe I've my saw set to go to full speed in seven seconds, i.e 7.
Coasting stop time/Deceleration, I believe I have that set to around the same. 7.
Push buttons enabled, yes.
That's 12 parameters right there, the likes of whats required on the more complicated
"huanyang"
I mention that as it's capable to de-rate motor power, so you could upgrade the motor
down the road if you felt like it needed more oomph.
I will say however that the in-built cooling fan runs all the time and is annoying.
I installed that one on the tablesaw, since I generally don't use the machine for odd wee cuts,
like I do with the bandsaw.
That should do it for ya, have a read on Bob's induction motor document,
as you don't want to enter those parameters wrong into the thing.
It'll explain why, as most of these things above are related to motor RPM, so a wrong command
might let the magic smoke out.
There's helpful folk here all day long to help at any stage,
run your parameters by us, and whatever else,
Hope that helps
Cheerio
Tom
but getting strong vibes of this is all way too complicated to even bother with,
rather than outright that won't fly for my situation, for whatever reason, I can't think of TBH.
Perhaps there's a bit of a sting to paying more for a little box of clever electronics,
than the machine,
If so, then I urge you to look at the cost of one of these Italian beauties, just for perspective.
Though the knowledge of being easily able to power something simple
like your bandsaw (it's only got the one motor) is kinda like the Mastercard advert.
I tried finding a good article that I've read before, which explains this very simply,
as I believe it's against the rules to give a link to the "rival" UK forum,
(that's where Bob resides, and the freely available induction motor document will be under his signature)
Unfortunately google images only comes up with super complicated stuff, and I can't find something simple like on the article mentioned.
Let's see what your motor will likely look like perhaps...
Pop off the lid, and you'll see six terminals and an earth or ground.
Note the three brass "straps"
If you see them like so, then the motor is ready to rock.
(configured to low voltage Delta, 240v that is.)
If it looked like there were only two brass straps, then those will be orientated
across instead, with the third strap stacked on top of another, which is for 400v.
You can't really do this wrong on these motors.
Now you've seen the Delta low voltage configuration, let's learn some parameters.
This motor should look fimiliar, I believe some lucky bar steward won it at auction for sixty odd quid, fair price for a motor I suppose...
Not to mention, that it came with an Italian bandsaw attached!
Jeepers look, it even gives instructions on how to configure it to Delta, well I'll be darned!
It's a 50hz motor, so suitable for most of the world, (apart from America, which needs 60hz motors)
that's a parameter.
We see it's got 1.1 Kw of oomph, or 1.5 horsepower, that's a parameter.
We see "2" so we know it's a "two pole motor"
We would know it's a two pole motor anyway, as the speed is close to 3000 RPM,
actually 2790 in this case. (four pole motors run at half this speed, and have larger pulleys)
I digress...but that's a parameter.
We can see beside the Delta illustration, that at 240v, it uses 3.9 amps, that's a parameter.
So depending on what VFD, you get....some don't give the option of entering the amps,
and as said buying one rated for larger motors, it's necessary to know that parameter is available with a known unit, to give the motor what amperage suits.
They constantly have new ones coming out all the time.
That stuff above is about six parameters to enter.
It might look more like this in the booklet when you jog it down on the back of the cover
Max Frequency, 50hz
Min Frequency, 50hz
Some other Frequency parameter may be required, which will again be 50hz
Motor power, 1.1Kw
Amps 3.9
Motor pole number, 2
Voltage, 240
And the rest is easy peasy...
Factory default, yes, (this is the first thing to do)
Reverse rotation disabled, yes.
Ramp up time/Acceleration, I believe I've my saw set to go to full speed in seven seconds, i.e 7.
Coasting stop time/Deceleration, I believe I have that set to around the same. 7.
Push buttons enabled, yes.
That's 12 parameters right there, the likes of whats required on the more complicated
"huanyang"
I mention that as it's capable to de-rate motor power, so you could upgrade the motor
down the road if you felt like it needed more oomph.
I will say however that the in-built cooling fan runs all the time and is annoying.
I installed that one on the tablesaw, since I generally don't use the machine for odd wee cuts,
like I do with the bandsaw.
That should do it for ya, have a read on Bob's induction motor document,
as you don't want to enter those parameters wrong into the thing.
It'll explain why, as most of these things above are related to motor RPM, so a wrong command
might let the magic smoke out.
There's helpful folk here all day long to help at any stage,
run your parameters by us, and whatever else,
Hope that helps
Cheerio
Tom
Jameshow
Established Member
More the fact that I'm stung by my own lack of knowledge in such things!
Anyway the sparky popped round wasn't phased (
) by the bandsaw and would price up an inverter to power it.
So in the autumn we should have it up and running along with the table saw and the kitty combination machine we have.
Anyway the sparky popped round wasn't phased (
) by the bandsaw and would price up an inverter to power it. So in the autumn we should have it up and running along with the table saw and the kitty combination machine we have.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
If you want to save yerself a few quid, best get the stuff needed,
as it could be expensive if the sparkey goes all out and refuses anything less,
i.e IP44 rated box, or whatever's used for VFD's, and another fan installation because those are sealed,
DIN rail (IIRC) for easy mounting of VFD, somewhat resembles a coat hanger for the thing, and
makes for a less compact i.e deeper box than on my saw, it might look a bit odd, if mounted where the original switch went.
HNF cable(or whatever it's called) good idea to have some fancy rubber cable, fair enough that one though.
Not sure if he'd want 10 second stop, though there is a brake on that saw,
the sparkey might get some more work out of you if he insists on some kind of fancy switch for that.
Expensive switches which might be exactly the same.
He might insist on "dynamic braking" which requires more features as on the fancier brands,
and to couple that an external braking resistor.
Sorry, I haven't come by any threads of 400mm machines, nor solid nor spoked wheeled Italian saws running off VFD's, let alone cheaper options, which had mention of the VFD having enough
in-built braking capacity to stop the wheels within that time, and I'm not going to push my
one to see how fast I can get it to stop 24" solid wheels, until it trips out.
Just sayin, should the sparkie be a stickler, and/or possibly unscrupulous to boot,
it might be cheaper to get them to price up a suitable single phase 2 pole flange mounted motor,
with the same shaft size, or if stepping up, another pulley.
On the other hand, they could do ya a half job, and specify an IP44 or whatever dust resistant
rated VFD, say like the UK made Invertec (IIRC)... likely available amongst many fancy makes though, and leave all the parameters to you!
You should know what the parameters do anyways.
I personally wouldn't be happy having big capacitors housed in just it's plastic box alone.
i.e like below
You likely need to do a bit of back and fourth with the sparkie about that.
All the best
Tom
as it could be expensive if the sparkey goes all out and refuses anything less,
i.e IP44 rated box, or whatever's used for VFD's, and another fan installation because those are sealed,
DIN rail (IIRC) for easy mounting of VFD, somewhat resembles a coat hanger for the thing, and
makes for a less compact i.e deeper box than on my saw, it might look a bit odd, if mounted where the original switch went.
HNF cable(or whatever it's called) good idea to have some fancy rubber cable, fair enough that one though.
Not sure if he'd want 10 second stop, though there is a brake on that saw,
the sparkey might get some more work out of you if he insists on some kind of fancy switch for that.
Expensive switches which might be exactly the same.
He might insist on "dynamic braking" which requires more features as on the fancier brands,
and to couple that an external braking resistor.
Sorry, I haven't come by any threads of 400mm machines, nor solid nor spoked wheeled Italian saws running off VFD's, let alone cheaper options, which had mention of the VFD having enough
in-built braking capacity to stop the wheels within that time, and I'm not going to push my
one to see how fast I can get it to stop 24" solid wheels, until it trips out.
Just sayin, should the sparkie be a stickler, and/or possibly unscrupulous to boot,
it might be cheaper to get them to price up a suitable single phase 2 pole flange mounted motor,
with the same shaft size, or if stepping up, another pulley.
On the other hand, they could do ya a half job, and specify an IP44 or whatever dust resistant
rated VFD, say like the UK made Invertec (IIRC)... likely available amongst many fancy makes though, and leave all the parameters to you!
You should know what the parameters do anyways.
I personally wouldn't be happy having big capacitors housed in just it's plastic box alone.
i.e like below
You likely need to do a bit of back and fourth with the sparkie about that.
All the best
Tom
Last edited:
Jameshow
Established Member
He's a freind of a retired chippie who did his workshop with him. We will do the donkey work of the conduit and he's going to wire up so shouldn't been too expensive.
