Hole cutting query

[BluegillUK]

Hi all,

Hope you're having a nice weekend so far!

Got a bit of a quandary- I've been making a crochet hook holder for a friend of my other half's. It's just made of pine, same as the one I did for my other half. When I did hers, I used a holesaw for the 18mm holes and although it took AGES to do as I had to keep clearing the drill bit and reattaching etc, it left a pretty clean hole with no tearout.

Since I had an order for another oneX I figured I would order a Forstner bit as this should make life easier- well I did the stupid thing of buying a cheap bit, which I'm gathering isn't sharp. I bought a cheap set from a local hardware shop and they're pretty good, but the bits I got extra from the set from another seller absolutely ripped the work up. Tearout to the point of structurally ruining the piece I was working on.

My question is- do I need a powerful drill to cut clean, smooth holes with a Forstner bit and also, could someone direct me to a trusted seller of good quality bits. I figured for the price the cheapie would be worth a pop but it's not fit for purpose, non surprisingly! My drill is a relatively low torque Bosch DIY but am thinking of upgrading to a DeWalt DCD795 when I can afford it.

Any thoughts, tips and recommendations would be great!

Thanks!!!

To add, I am hand cutting these holes as I can't afford nor have room for a drill press yet

Nick

 

[MatthewRedStars]

On occasion you can drill a smaller hole and then run a standard twist drill in reverse to get a clean entry, before running it forwards to get to depth.

Not sure about with a forstner as it won't self centre. Be wary!

 

[AndyT]

With a cheap or blunt Forstner revolving at high speed, the best option is a drill press or stand. Otherwise the bit moves across the surface and damages it, as you have found. Forstner bits first appeared for use at slow speed in a brace, where they can be kept under control, but you are unlikely to find old ones now.

Some suggestions that might help:
If you can make one decent hole in a bit of scrap wood, clamp this onto the wood you want to drill, so it works as a guide.
Put some scrap on the back too to prevent tearout.
Drill as slowly as you can with plenty of downward pressure.

If you have a suitable file, sharpen your cheap bit. The soft steel is at least easy to sharpen, though it won't last long.

Alternatively, a flat bit, with a sharp point, is less troublesome in a high speed hand-held drill. Again, put scrap on the back.

You don't need a high power drill - 18mm is not a big hole.

 

[iNewbie]

Both Colt & Famag make a Forstners with drill bit centers - you'll have too search online for UK stockists, though.

https://www.fine-tools.com/forstnerbohrer.html

 

[BluegillUK]

Thanks for the response,

It's not the surface that it's doing the damage to. I had the piece clamped quite tightly to a piece of scrap also, but there was so much tearout so I am assuming that I really didn't clamp it well enough?

The holes that I managed are dead straight, so there's no issue there. It's just the nature in which it's ripped the grain up in the middle of the hole on the 18mm and the 25mm hole is lovely and smooth. Have attached link to pics;

https://ibb.co/k0BXwF
https://ibb.co/hKwbOv

mod edit to add pic


Best I look up how to sharpen the bits, sounds as though they're blunt as hell.

 

[AndyT]

Sharp edges are the answer to most woodworking problems.
If you don't have any suitable small files, just glue abrasive paper to a stick and use that.

 

[BluegillUK]

Sharp edges are the answer to most woodworking problems.
If you don't have any suitable small files, just glue abrasive paper to a stick and use that.

Advice much appreciated Andy, thank you!

 

[Racers]

That cheap very quickly grown pine is nasty stuff, its so soft you need really sharp tools to cut it cleanly.
I would use something else if I where you.

Pete

 

[oakmitre]

I have found cheap Chinese carbide boring bits from eBay to be very good.

This one is 18mm and cost £1.29 including postage.

The wood is pine. The dark spots in the hole are pitch, not tearout.

I drilled this about an hour ago using an Aldi 12v drill, the battery was so flat, it was cutting out during the drilling.

Feels reasonably smooth to the touch inside the hole.

 

[BluegillUK]

Thanks guys!

Oakmitre, looks like a lovely hole that Think I've got a really rubbish bit! I have been out this afternoon and have purchased a set of needle files so will try sharpening!

By the way Pete, what would you recommend wood-wise?

 

[bracspin]

I drill lots of 18mm holes in hardwood but use a drill press and have found many cheap bits to have a short life. My most recent purchase was an Alpen forstner bit bought on Amazon around £20 which is going great guns. Having said about cheap bits not being good I agree with oakmitre; I needed a 21mm bit which is an unusual size but of of course the chinese can do it. I assumed their carbide bit would be inferior so ordered three (at £2 each no big deal) after over 100 holes still on the first bit!

 

[Racers]

Hi blugillUK

Beech would probably be my first choice.

Pete

 

[Eric The Viking]

+1 for Beech - cheap, relatively easy to find, nice to work and finish, and you can stain it to any darker colour of your choice (well almost).

Nobody's yet asked: how deep does the hole need to be?

If deep, a good, old-fashioned auger bit (lip and spur) in a hand brace should give you a really nice finish, and they are very controllable and fairly easy to sharpen (cheap diamond plates work well in my experience, and although they cut fast they're generally more gentle than files for a touch-up). The spur does the most work and blunts fastest - don't take off too much metal though, as the spur determines the size of the hole. Only the very end and leading curve of the spur needs to be really sharp, so there's more 'meat' in them than most people think.

18mm is just under 3/4", which is a imperial standard size. You ought to be able to get a brace and a set of bits for a few quid at a car boot, and anyway they're still available brand new. Rust on s/h ones is easily dealt with, and anyway doesn't really matter, as long as it's not contaminating the workpiece.

Lip+spur auger bits intended for power tools (with hex or even SDS ends) are cheap from the likes of Toolstation. The trick is to use them slowly with downward pressure. I prefer a hand brace, as otherwise I find I can't react quickly enough when they start to tear the surface or clog. I have a cheap set, and I'm hacksawing them down to lose the SDS machining, one-by-one, as I need to use them, so my Stanley brace, intended for traditional square-ended bits and round drills, can grip them nicely.

In very fibrous timbers like the fast-grown stuff from the sheds, you'll find having the flutes as slippery as possible will help. You can wax them, but if worried about it contaminating the finish (hardly an issue with resinous pine!), you might try a small paintbrush to dust talcum powder into the flutes. It's mainly to help the chips escape easily, and you don't need to overdo it.

Honestly a Forstner bit, even of the best quality, wouldn't be my first choice for this - a hand brace and auger bit would be.

 

[HappyHacker]

I agree with Eric above.

I use the Irwin blue grove 6X ones on http://www.irwin.co.uk/uploads/uk/docum ... illing.pdf they give a reasonable result but I am usually using them to drill holes in joists in existing floors using a battery drill or angle drill and am primarily interested in speed.

 

[nev]

I'd +1 for Petes suggestion about the quality of the wood you are using. Not an issue with pine in general just the piece you seem to be using. Have a look for any local joinery firms and ask if you can have a rummage through their scrap bins.

 

[Stormer1940]

That cheap very quickly grown pine is nasty stuff, its so soft you need really sharp tools to cut it cleanly.
I would use something else if I where you.

Pete

I was just about to say that the material may be the culprit. :shock:

 

[BluegillUK]

Hiya chaps,

Thanks again for all of the knowledgeable input- I will try and get my hands on a different material. Beech sounds good, so thanks for the recommendations. As I'm new to it and I've not got a lot of cash free, the suggestion of going to a timber merchant and asking for something with me not able to afford anything is a little daunting and a bit embarrassing

I'm drilling through the whole piece of pine which I'd say is 18-20mm. I've had a look at the auger bits etc but have read alot about tearout on the back of the piece- will clamping solve this? I did notice that the one I made previously, even when all of the holes were drilled, felt heavier? This piece felt very light, almost like a piece of balsa. Very odd indeed.

The frustrating this is I think I've got a nice product but it's in early days and executing it perfectly is proving to be a bit tough!

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Eric The Viking]

the suggestion of going to a timber merchant...

Try a timber reclamation place if you can. Or failing that, cheap secondhand furniture (often found in skips!) - anything heavily "brown" is very often beech underneath. It glues well, so if you need thicker, you can usually achieve it by rub-jointing blocks together (and you may even match the grain quite well with care).

I'm drilling through the whole piece of pine which I'd say is 18-20mm. I've had a look at the auger bits etc but have read a lot about tearout on the back of the piece- will clamping solve this?

Yes, clamp to a fresh piece of something scrap that meets the underside tightly and that the lead screw can grip into - pref. not MDF. You can also put a fine pilot hole through and use the auger bit from both sides. Generally the sharper the auger, especially the spur, the better.

Cheap pine ("deal") is cheap enough to experiment with!

E.

 

[BluegillUK]

Thanks for the tips Eric, will attempt some experimentation this weekend!