Has any one dealt with design copyright?

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Jensmith

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For those who don't know I'm designing and making 12th scale period fireplaces to sell as kits.
The intention being, that if it takes off it would be run as a business.

The first one is just about ready - I'm just sorting out the final product images and text etc.

As these are my own designs adapted from real antique fireplaces I was wondering there was any way to protect my designs from being copied other than putting a copyright note on and stating that they mustn't be copied?

Is there anything you can do to prove the original is your design should it be copied?

Thanks,

Jennifer,
 
Hi Jen

Just to be pedantic there is no such thing as "design copyright". But there is "Copyright" and "Design Rights" which are not the same thing. Copyright does not need to be registered, but enforcing any alleged copyright infringement may be a more difficult than other forms of IP protection. To protect the "design" of your fireplaces you will need to use "Registered Design Rights" and/or "Unregistered Design Rights", and then a further choice is whether you want protection just in UK, in Europe or around the World. Each jurisdiction has different terms of protection which will also have an impact on your decision. You may also want to protect your Trade Mark, which will need to be registered (if you have not already done so)? The 4th form of IP is "Patents" but these are not applicable here.

I suggest you visit your local high street "Intellectual Property Attorneys" who can advise you for a small fee. Have a look in Yell.com or other search engine for a local firm.

Hope this helps?
HM
 
I have had my stuff copied, and there is nothing I can do about it, they only have to change a few small details and then it is not a copy.
Really do not worry about it, unless you are turning over £100000 or more then can you actually afford to take anyone to court? If it happens to be a far eastern company who copies your designs and floods the market then all you can really do is to inform every outlet and distributor that they are selling copied or counterfeit goods and to get the courts to stop them. Not cheap. Instead rely on your own creativity and know you can easily do new designs. Most businesses are always bringing out new products.
I do not worry about it, life is too short and I know that I am creative and easily have more ideas than I can ever produce. People will always recognise, seek out and purchase well crafted and designed work.
 
Patents, trademarks etc... are all useless by themselves, they are not a right to exclusivity, they are a right to prosecute. So you will have to apply for them, justify as necessary then wait for it to be granted (all this will cost you) then once it's granted and someone infringes, you need to then, take them to court using your patent, registered design etc... as evidence for you owning that design, for an injunction to be granted (this will REALLY cost you). Considering you are starting with a copy, I'd not put my money there.

Aidan

ps - an IP solicitor will almost always tell you to file as there's normally money in it for them. It's like asking an insurance salesman if I should really take out a policy?!
 
TheTiddles":1lad38zt said:
Considering you are starting with a copy, I'd not put my money there.

Excuse me! Who said anything about me making copies??!

My design is my own. There is no other 12th scale fireplace exactly like mine and I don't copy other peoples work!!!

Everyone will have common elements because any one who is making a miniature Georgian fireplace will by nature, have to incorporate the style of the period but no-one else is doing it exactly like me.
I've put in a lot of time researching what was out there before I started.

Having said that, I think i'm going to leave protecting any designs until I've proven them commercially. It's too expensive ATM.

That's why I asked for advice. To see what was feasible.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate your comments.
 
When a piece is scaled does that allow enough for it not to be a copy or is it still a copy?

"As these are my own designs adapted from real antique fireplaces..."

I would have thought that your thinking, by creating your OWN designs adapted from real antique fireplaces, would be similar to someone, creating their own designs adapting from a scaled design of an antique fireplace.

Unless you have a crazy amount of money to throw at it then as soon as you put it in the open market if it's good enough businesses will 'copy' it.

I'm unsure as to the size of the market you're selling, what is your projected turnover? This can effect the value as to whether you need to protect your product.
 
I think you miss the point. Every business I know that produces miniature furniture or items produces a 'copy' of the full size item. That is the point.
Even the biggest one out there - the Dolls House Emporium produces replicas of the real thing. They must have their designs protected in some way.

I can't afford to take someone to court but to be honest, I'm not sure it would be necessary as certainly for the small companies in the UK I don't think they'd be copying my work in the same way that I won't copy theirs.
The main risk I would see is for cheap copies from China.
It's an industry of mostly people like me, who have started off small because they love what they do and grown from there. Ive met the people at fairs etc. Ok, so the big companies might be more cut throat but the only way they can achieve something is to make it cheaper on China.


I have no idea what my turnover could be as at the moment it's zero. Until I start selling I don't know how well my product will be received.
 
My apologies if you feel offended Jennifer, but I am not missing the point.

You are "recreating" something that already exists, is without design protection and in the public domain. By "reproducing" it in a 1/12th scale form you are taking a current design or parts thereof and combining them into a new form. This may be novel but will need to be assessed against the existing prior art and is only truly upheld in case law once you have had it challenged and prosecuted.

You can get upset about this if you want and exasperated at my advice, but perhaps you'd like to see some of my UK registered designs first? Or maybe some of my designs patented globally? But what would I know... :roll:

Aidan
 
I'm not exasperated.
I would argue that it can't be classed as a copy if it's not constructed in the same way or made from the same materials as the original.

I'm not suggesting I would be granted design protection, I don't know. I'm not going to argue about it with you. I get the feeling that everyone is going to have different views on this.

I think the best thing might be to ask some fellow miniaturists if they protect their work and if so, how they do it.
 
Re. the above. Copying 'but not quite' may be a big problem because it cuts both ways.

Engineering/design patents for example are notoriously difficult to enforce for precisely this reason - it's usually possible to get the same function from a not quite identical design.

There's lots of reasons to argue that they shouldn't be granted since they amount to discovery of natural stuff rather than inventions, but patents for something like a chemical reaction/process/drug or even a gene are almost water tight because there is only one way for them to work in nature.

Copyright I'm less familiar with. It doesn't require making an application for it, and is most enforceable in the case of stuff of very high complexity made up of easily identified elements like written works. i.e. copying is easily proven because the chances of something identical arising otherwise are negligible.

You can register a design, but this tends to apply mostly to elements of styling or an overall 'look', enforcement is a rather more judgement based call. Certain designs (e.g. a logo) may be very unique, most much less so.

As Aidan says none of these amount to anything much unless you have the clout/money to defend them, and have a case you can reliably win which means getting over the hurdle of the defence not showing your stuff was not already in the public domain, and then that yours has been copied - and the corporates will frequently try it on. Many Eastern businesses seemingly don't care because patent law doesn't apply/isn't enforceable in their countries.


PS - a quickie added later. This is not to say that it's commonplace, or that whatever form of protection of intellectual property doesn't provide a measure of protection by putting off the less serious threats - but another issue it seems is that greed on the part of agents, and increasingly less expert/thorough examination of the (increasingly weasel worded) claims in patent applications by patent offices means that patents are now frequently granted for stuff that in truth is not novel.

So that having spent gazillions on patent cover this of itself provides no absolute guarantee that if it goes to court that you can't be blown out of the water on lack of novelty.

Another not infrequent source of weakness/method of attacking patents is to show that there was (usually accidental) prior disclosure by the inventor (e.g. sampling of prototypes, or limited selling without the protection of a non-disclosure etc agreement) that a court will deem as having placed the invention in the public domain...
 
ondablade":28r0wavg said:
Another not infrequent source of weakness/method of attacking patents is to show that there was (usually accidental) prior disclosure by the inventor (e.g. sampling of prototypes, or limited selling without the protection of a non-disclosure etc agreement) that a court will deem as having placed the invention in the public domain...

That's very true and frequently overlooked. In short, you'd have to register your design before you tried to sell it, requires a little thought sometimes

Aidan
 
I wouldn't be going for a patent as it's defiantly not patentable.

I was told you could apply for design registration after the event (ie for sale).

It's not a major issue - I'm not terribly worried about this one - I've got plenty more ideas so it's more important to me that I try selling it and see if people like what I'm doing and I hopefully get sales leading up to xmas.

I'm still learning so I'm sure I'll be producing items of more value further down the line that might be worth protecting.

We shall see how it goes.
 
Copyright exists in a design, a written work or a painting etc, the moment it is finished. You don't need to do anything else to 'copyright it.'

For written proof of the date you finished the design, just make a copy of your drawings. Seal them in an envelope with transparent tape, with a date stamp underneath and mail them to yourself via recorded delivery.

The registered mail details will also have the date on them. Leave the envelope unopened when it arrives.

You don't need to go to this trouble, but it will give you peace of mind and proof of your design date, if you ever need to open the envelope for evidence.

HTH

John
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