Hancock's Half Hour

[doctor Bob]

As you well know Bob the vast majority are ordinary responsible people who worked hard for 40 to 50 years but who prudently planned for the future of their families and not the fat cat greedy bast*rds like politicians and bankers etc.

Yes but you will have saved lives, as you mentioned a while back you can't put a value on that, you could be proud that part of your pension did that. :wink:

 

[doctor Bob]

What about the number of employees who have received those furlough payment / grants and loans who have been working when not supposed to? E.g. I know one who's never had so much income and several doing gardens, 2 cutting hair, I'm not going to make assumption on numbers just the one's I know but it seems pretty clear they are out there if you read between the lines on social media.

I see no issue with whistleblowing on these people if they have broken the furlough agreement.

 

[doctor Bob]

So perhaps the businesses that rushed to grab the grants and interest free loans should be paying them back, such as has been stated on this thread received help but were allowed to continue to work.
If you want to go further then the businesses who happily furloughed staff at taxpayers expense with very little intention of protecting those jobs once the payments are stopped, should be penalised and forced to retain the positions or pay the furlough costs?

I think a rolling payback is a good idea, all for it, maybe part employee, part employer.

 

[powertools]

I'm lucky at present, seem to have a cracking order book and thanks to my certainty of doom I acted quickly, cutting company costs early, quite substancially.

How do you explain the fact you have a good order book but think that we are in for economic melt down.
I think that we are entering a period of change and uncertainty but business will adapt in the way you have and in time things will improve

 

[Lons]

As you well know Bob the vast majority are ordinary responsible people who worked hard for 40 to 50 years but who prudently planned for the future of their families and not the fat cat greedy bast*rds like politicians and bankers etc.

Yes but you will have saved lives, as you mentioned a while back you can't put a value on that, you could be proud that part of your pension did that. :wink:

I wasn't complaining Bob just responding to your sweeping statement which overlooks the fact that whilst the elderly are most at risk so are large numbers of much younger people with underlying issues as well as those impoverished areas where there are poor housing problems, poor diet and a much higher percentage of cigarette and drug use, not to mention the susceptibility of black and Asian groups. Lockdown didn't just protect the elderly and we all pay one way or another.

I assume from comments in a number of your posts (correct me if I'm wrong), that you took the opportunity to get rid of dead wood employees or are they still furloughed?

 

[doctor Bob]

I assume from comments in a number of your posts (correct me if I'm wrong), that you took the opportunity to get rid of dead wood employees or are they still furloughed?

All back one month ago, apart from one who is part time and older.
The comment about taking stock early was things like mine and Michaels big trucks, just vanity they have gone back and we now sort own transport. Other various ways to reign it in, mainly impoacting on the directors life styles.

 

[Lons]

I assume from comments in a number of your posts (correct me if I'm wrong), that you took the opportunity to get rid of dead wood employees or are they still furloughed?

All back one month ago, apart from one who is part time and older.
The comment about taking stock early was things like mine and Michaels big trucks, just vanity they have gone back and we now sort own transport. Other various ways to reign it in, mainly impoacting on the directors life styles.

Fair enough Bob.

My assumption was based mainly on your strong views regarding furloughed employees taking the proverbial and who were going to get a rude awakening.
Pleased you have plenty of work ahead I think reputation for quality work is even more important now.

 

[doctor Bob]

whilst the elderly are most at risk so are large numbers of much younger people with underlying issues as well as those impoverished areas where there are poor housing problems, poor diet and a much higher percentage of cigarette and drug use, not to mention the susceptibility of black and Asian groups. Lockdown didn't just protect the elderly and we all pay one way or another.

That's simply not true, look at the deaths age group from covid published by the ONS. I don't disagree that Bame and poor health is a factor but nothing compared to age, if your obese your probably doing yourself no favours. Certainly not large numbers as a percentage (tiny percentage).

 

[Rorschach]

I'm with Bob on that. If you are under 60 you have little to worry about. Flu is more of a concern as it kills young and old.
Vast majorty of deaths are over 60 and most of them are over 80. I can't remember where I read it but they said that almost everyone that has died was older than average life expectancy. :shock:

 

[doctor Bob]

I'm lucky at present, seem to have a cracking order book and thanks to my certainty of doom I acted quickly, cutting company costs early, quite substancially.

How do you explain the fact you have a good order book but think that we are in for economic melt down.
I think that we are entering a period of change and uncertainty but business will adapt in the way you have and in time things will improve

Recessions take time. There is a mental depression coming. Companies can adapt but not when the economy is shrinking so rapidly. I'm sorry but if you think things are going to get better you are wrong, it will get much much worse before we turn the corner. Proper redundancies have not even started yet, that will all kick in end of June, I predict 3 million jobs will be lost in the next year.

 

[Lons]

Don't make me point out that we never thought the earth was flat lol

:lol: :lol: :lol: I stuck that in to see if you were paying attention, I retained at least some of the history I was taught.

 

[Rorschach]

Don't make me point out that we never thought the earth was flat lol

:lol: :lol: :lol: I stuck that in to see if you were paying attention, I retained at least some of the history I was taught.

:lol: :lol: :lol: of course I was paying attention!

 

[Terry - Somerset]

There is far too much "wise with the benefit of hindsight". When the furlough scheme was introduced the government:

- prioritised speed of implementation over detail
- did not know how long it would last
- could only guess at the uptake and cost
- needed to get compliance with lockdown (effectively a bribe)

We now know a lot more and are relaxing lockdown. Distancing is a part of relaxation. The change in risk moving from 1m to 2m is not clear with figures quoted between a factor of 2 to 10.

My simple non-scientific approach would estimate a factor of 5 or 6 on the basis that a single point virus release (eg: sneeze) will disperse to cover an area the square of the distance from release (4 times). The more distant the release, the less concentrated the virus becomes due to air movement, stopped by adjacent surfaces, too low a concentration to infect.

Aside for a few who seem unconcerned about the spread of CV-19 and its consequences, most would not want to provoke a major spike in infection and a second lockdown - financially and socially disasterous.

Getting community infection down to completely manageable levels, and test track and trace wholly effective is probably the only route to opening up completely. Vaccine if it happens will take a lot longer.

Schools could return to normal regular classes. Retail, entertainment, restaurants etc could re-open and trade normally. Without controlled very low infection rates the virus will continue to be a major drag on economic recovery.

Community infection is around 33000 and falling by around 20% per week. In 3 weeks it may be half the current level and TT&T properly up to speed. It is then that substantial relaxation would be feasible. Strangely this aligns with the governments early July target!

 

[Lons]

(eg: sneeze)

This little chap isn't taking any chances ( yeah I know it's faked, still funny though )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLBBUXIMfs

 

[Rorschach]

Terry I think the reason they are doing things as they are is that they know no matter what happens with the infection rate a second lockdown is impossible. They know the terrible cost of the first one and that the public simply would not stand for doing it again.

I mostly complied with this one, I would not do it again for any reason and I know several others who think the same.

 

[Lons]

I mostly complied with this one, I would not do it again for any reason and I know several others who think the same.

Perhaps they should have done the same as Australia and issued $1000 fines to those on the streets without a valid reason and full 2 week quarantine when crossing a state border so if you left NSW for Queensland it was 2 weeks in a hotel then another 2 when you came back. Ok if all you wanted was a 4 week holiday locked in hotel rooms but with free bed and board.

Relatively quick and hard lockdown, total reported Corvid deaths only 102

Info isn't from google btw it came from my brother in Sydney.

 

[Jake]

As you well know Bob the vast majority are ordinary responsible people who worked hard for 40 to 50 years but who prudently planned for the future of their families and not the fat cat greedy bast*rds like politicians and bankers etc.

Yes but you will have saved lives, as you mentioned a while back you can't put a value on that, you could be proud that part of your pension did that. :wink:

We only paid off (or rather refinanced) the last bit of WW1 debt issuance in 2015, the WW2 yank loans in 2006, and as you've no doubt read, the 1833 debt issued to compensate slave owners for abolition in 2017.

Governments and nations aren't households and the biggest risk is numbskull austerians revisiting their self-defeating catastrophic anti-cyclical nonsense based on a household (or private business) budgeting analogy.

 

[Jake]

I'm with Bob on that. If you are under 60 you have little to worry about. Flu is more of a concern as it kills young and old.
Vast majorty of deaths are over 60 and most of them are over 80. I can't remember where I read it but they said that almost everyone that has died was older than average life expectancy. :shock:

Under 45 that's kind of true in terms of death, not that risks in the 1 in 1000s are much comfort to the 1 who dies and those around them. Understandably all the focus is on death rates as that's serious and dramatic and unavoidably terminally obvious, but there is insufficient attention being paid to long term and likely to be irreversible damage to eg lung and kidney function, which appears not to be as age-related (ie serious cases that go on to kill the older don't kill the younger but leave them permanently impaired and hence more vulnerable to future illness).

 

[Rorschach]

I'm with Bob on that. If you are under 60 you have little to worry about. Flu is more of a concern as it kills young and old.
Vast majorty of deaths are over 60 and most of them are over 80. I can't remember where I read it but they said that almost everyone that has died was older than average life expectancy. :shock:

Under 45 that's kind of true in terms of death, not that risks in the 1 in 1000s are much comfort to the 1 who dies and those around them. Understandably all the focus is on death rates as that's serious and dramatic and unavoidably terminally obvious, but there is insufficient attention being paid to long term and likely to be irreversible damage to eg lung and kidney function, which appears not to be as age-related (ie serious cases that go on to kill the older don't kill the younger but leave them permanently impaired and hence more vulnerable to future illness).

You do know 1 in 100 people die every year in this country right?

 

[Jake]

Yes, but as these are extra so what. Do you know that YouTube breeds an ill-informed person every second?