Hackers attack MAC Leopard OS

[TonyW]

I know that there are a number of forum members using Apple MAC. Today I received an email from IT pro relating to a new Tojan. Thought I should pass on the info:

Hackers prey on Leopard

Mac users face an onslaught of targeted malware through forums and pornography sites that can remain undetected on their systems.
Full Story Here

Cheers
Tony

 

[mr]

Combined with the leopard default state for the firewall (off) as reported by the BBC today that doesn't look very good at all does it.

cheers Mike

 

[tnimble]

First Hackers do NOT attack systems nor do they create trojens or want to have anything to do with explointing people.

This is a very bad thing and a similair thing has been done on windows a few times already. See also my posts in the woiuld you say this is 100% correct now and in the future? thread.

Please protect your self with a few simple steps like a decent firewall, virusscanner, spyware removal toold and common sense before you click on something. No matter if you are using Mac, Linux or Windows.

 

[TonyW]

First Hackers do NOT attack systems nor do they create trojens or want to have anything to do with explointing people.
Please protect your self with a few simple steps like a decent firewall, virusscanner, spyware removal toold and common sense before you click on something. No matter if you are using Mac, Linux or Windows.

You are quite correct, true Hackers DO NOT attack systems or create Trojans etc.
Quote Wilkepedia
"Hacker has several common meanings, the unifying characteristic of which is only that it refers to a person who is an avid computer enthusiast. It is most commonly used as a pejorative by the mass media to refer to a person who engages in illegal computer trespass, which is its original meaning,[1] but it can also refer to people engaged in ethical hacking, to the members of the open source and free software community or to home computer hobbyists".
Unfortunately due to the media " a Hacker" is now seen as someone who's purpose is to attack computer systems causing chaos.

Agreed all should protect themselves via Firewall, virus scanner and spyware removal tools. Most PC users are only too well aware of the need for this protection. I suspect that many MAC users may well feel that their systems are more secure and less prone to virus and trojan attack than PC's. I feel that this may have been the case in the past, the "bad guys" picking on the much larger PC user base. The feeling in the computer industry seems to suggest that we are likely to see more targeting of MAC systems in the future.

Cheers
Tony

 

[ByronBlack]

Tony, i don't agree that the market share relates to the level of vulnrability of systems. The Mac OS is a very secure system as it's build on a core of UNIX which runs many large banks around the world. BUT no system is truelly safe if the user is a donkey.

I don't agree with the default 'off' in the mac OS, it's one thing I always sort out whenever I get the new OS or a new machine.

One thing is for sure, with the internet being so unregulated, there are always going to be potentially dangerous things, it's up to us as users to know what we are doing and we are clicking on. But we also musn't get swept away with hype and hysterier.

For example, my dad bless him (also now a mac user and loving it) keeps sending me emails that talk about some scam or virus that is clearly rubbish, you know the ones: don't visit a particular website, otherwise your computers gets controlled by hackers and it wipes all your data from hard-drive etc.. just scare mongering, and I've often wondered whether these things are put out by the millions of 'security' software writers to encourage users to buy their software.

Also, just a note on this particular story, whether you have a firewall on or not, thats not the cause of this, it's really down to stupid users, you need to be aware what you are installing, you can't install something at system level on a mac unless you actively open the .dmg and quite often the OS will require a passwood if there are any changes to the root level system, so it always comes down to the rule: know what you are downloading.

As a protective measure, there is a little piece of software called "little snitch" and when run this tells you everything that 'dials home' such as the OS update to apple and various software 'upgrades', its great for detecting any unwarrented use of 'dialing' out.

 

[tnimble]

You are quite correct, true Hackers DO NOT attack systems or create Trojans etc.
Quote Wilkepedia
"Hacker has several common meanings, the unifying characteristic of which is only that it refers to a person who is an avid computer enthusiast. It is most commonly used as a pejorative by the mass media to refer to a person who engages in illegal computer trespass, which is its original meaning,[1] but it can also refer to people engaged in ethical hacking, to the members of the open source and free software community or to home computer hobbyists".
Unfortunately due to the media " a Hacker" is now seen as someone who's purpose is to attack computer systems causing chaos.

The part with the note [1] in it is based on a 2003 article. It is not the origional meaning of the word. Its the first time the media used the word computer related. The word itself predates the computer era up to the 15th century (besides the same word to indicate a woodworking technique also known as chopping which dates to the 13th century). The origional meaning is doing somehting in an odd mannor or doing things that are out of the normal.

Agreed all should protect themselves via Firewall, virus scanner and spyware removal tools. Most PC users are only too well aware of the need for this protection. I suspect that many MAC users may well feel that their systems are more secure and less prone to virus and trojan attack than PC's. I feel that this may have been the case in the past, the "bad guys" picking on the much larger PC user base. The feeling in the computer industry seems to suggest that we are likely to see more targeting of MAC systems in the future.

Cheers
Tony

I only partially share that. All the systems have flaws although not all have the same amount or cause the same potiential harm. The attackers of those flaws are to be divied into groups before their actions can be analyzed.

One of those types of persons have a huge population on certain computer platforms (no need to state which one). This particular group of people have the property that they have little in depth computer knowdge them self. This script kiddy group reuse the methods of others for their own profit or enjoyment without actually understanding what they do aprt from the stepds to take, or the trick to do and the result it has.

This group moves along with what is the most popular platform.

The two other groups are; the people with in-depth knowledge who target a specific network or computer. The target is selected and serves a specific goal. These people commonly also participate in non computer related organised crime. The computer platform targetted is mostly not one but multiple. There is only little risk for the common man. The goal is mostly extortion within organized crime, planting evidence, big fraud scams.

The last group are also the people with in-depth knowledge but without criminal intend. The flaws found are only sought out and described. The viruses, trojans etc created remain unreleased and are only meant for prove of concept. However their description or existence may cause harm when used by the first or second group. The members of this group are commonly the same as the people active in the operating system or security software development.

 

[tnimble]

Tony, i don't agree that the market share relates to the level of vulnrability of systems. The Mac OS is a very secure system as it's build on a core of UNIX which runs many large banks around the world. BUT no system is truelly safe if the user is a donkey.

Indeed, also see the above post.

I don't agree with the default 'off' in the mac OS, it's one thing I always sort out whenever I get the new OS or a new machine.

Enabeling certain security measurements is part of installing and setting up a system. When failing to do this correctly you have the potential of harm to you (and others). Its just as with other things like your cars safety belt or your table saws riving knife. If you don't install, activate or use it you won't be protected by it.

One thing is for sure, with the internet being so unregulated, there are always going to be potentially dangerous things, it's up to us as users to know what we are doing and we are clicking on. But we also musn't get swept away with hype and hysterier.

Also without the internet. For example there was a vast security problem with infected floppy disks. Esp with the disks or computer games that got intercepted before reaching the warehouse to be sold infected on the black market.

For example, my dad bless him (also now a mac user and loving it) keeps sending me emails that talk about some scam or virus that is clearly rubbish, you know the ones: don't visit a particular website, otherwise your computers gets controlled by hackers and it wipes all your data from hard-drive etc.. just scare mongering, and I've often wondered whether these things are put out by the millions of 'security' software writers to encourage users to buy their software.

Not able to comment on that other than indeed ignore such messages their content have other reasons then warning you for their 'subject'.

Also, just a note on this particular story, whether you have a firewall on or not, thats not the cause of this, it's really down to stupid users, you need to be aware what you are installing, you can't install something at system level on a mac unless you actively open the .dmg and quite often the OS will require a passwood if there are any changes to the root level system, so it always comes down to the rule: know what you are downloading.

Indeed most problems are caused by the victims them selfs. Always read messages before clocking on something etc. It sometimes really amazes me how some people work on their computer. The real world equiv would be:

A person walks down the street. A stranger in a worn coat and dirt on his face walks up to him and starts to ask "Sorry sir, can you h". Before the stranger can finish his sentence the person puts his case and wallet on the side walk, gets out of his coat and trousers and turns around waiting what will happen. After standing there out in the street for a while he walks off wondering what to do next mumbling to himself "its kinda chilly today for this time of year"

As a protective measure, there is a little piece of software called "little snitch" and when run this tells you everything that 'dials home' such as the OS update to apple and various software 'upgrades', its great for detecting any unwarrented use of 'dialing' out.

 

[TonyW]

Just in case anyone is in any doubt let me say I am not a MAC hater or even a lover of PC's (well the Windows bit anyway ). My motive for the posting was purely to pass on information I had received and believe to be correct, hoping it might be helpful to others. Definitely not trying to create hysteria amongst MAC users (a little paranoia though for all personal computer users might be helpful )

Byron I could have phrased my first reply more clearly. What I was trying to suggest is that the MAC user base is relatively small (according to most net sources!) compared to the PC(Windows) user base. As such it probably does not attract the "Bad CrackerHacker" to invade due to having less kudos amongst his/her peers. I understand that in these circles almost "pop star" status is attached to those that are able to penetrate the big systems.

I am aware that UNIX and LINUX are seen to be very secure however as you say no system should be taken as truly safe - there will always be a way in for the ultra determined! Imagine then the potential kudos for the "Bad CrackerHacker" to really break these systems - would be held up as a god by his peers :twisted:

tnimble - Very interesting and informative comments about the groups. I think that as you say we (the common man!) are most at risk from the "script kiddy" using methods that others created. I assume here you may be referring to the Do It Yourself Virus Kits that are rumored to be around in the web underworld?

Now a confession, I have been and still am a hacker- hopefully in the best sense of the word! To qualify that statement: I have always been curious since a youngster how certain things worked. I used to take things apart just to see how they worked and occasionally when I put them back together they still worked The same applies to PC's and software applications - I have built and repaired PC's and written small specialized software apps. and also pulled apart other authors software to see what makes it tick (just for ME!). One day I hope to be able to post something I have made on this forum - until that time trust me when I say I am a wood hacker

Cheers
Tony

 

[tnimble]

...
I am aware that UNIX and LINUX are seen to be very secure however as you say no system should be taken as truly safe - there will always be a way in for the ultra determined! Imagine then the potential kudos for the "Bad CrackerHacker" to really break these systems - would be held up as a god by his peers :twisted:

Those systems are indeed potentionally more safe. In an ideal world where all distributions using the GNU tools, libraries and based software with a Linux Kernel would run an update service (sush as RedHat did before fedora) or all users would actively apply all updates most if not all security holes would be fixed in a matter of hours rather than days. And any virus or worm would be stopped from spreading even faster.

tnimble - Very interesting and informative comments about the groups. I think that as you say we (the common man!) are most at risk from the "script kiddy" using methods that others created. I assume here you may be referring to the Do It Yourself Virus Kits that are rumored to be around in the web underworld?

Amongst.

Now a confession, I have been and still am a hacker- hopefully in the best sense of the word! To qualify that statement: I have always been curious since a youngster how certain things worked. I used to take things apart just to see how they worked and occasionally when I put them back together they still worked The same applies to PC's and software applications - I have built and repaired PC's and written small specialized software apps. and also pulled apart other authors software to see what makes it tick (just for ME!). One day I hope to be able to post something I have made on this forum - until that time trust me when I say I am a wood hacker

This puts you very close to be able to enrole as a member of the Church of EMACS. Also see the saint and Gospel.

 

[ByronBlack]

Now a confession, I have been and still am a hacker

Aha, you've been caught my son!!! It's all YOUR fault!

In all seriousness Tony, I appreciate you passing on the information, I didn't meant to make my post contradictory or starting up the age old debate, just putting some thoughts across on the discussion.

 

[TonyW]

Hi Byron
No problems I didn't find your post particularly contradictory, even if I had I believe I would respect your views and opinions - although I might try to change them via discussion

Forums can be difficult places at times, the meaning of short statements and the motives of the author can be misinterpreted leading to strong exchanges (as we have seen here in the past!). On the other hand long posts can come across as boring or someone showing off there expertise (or lack of!) for some self gratification.

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyW]

This puts you very close to be able to enrole as a member of the Church of EMACS. Also see the saint and Gospel.

Intriguing - not seen this before

 

[andycorleone]

I belived MAC is safer than windows only because Windows had more users than MAC, in the shoes of a hacker you want to catch as most people as posible. For example if you creatd a virus in Winodws there ir more probabilities that the malware will be in more computers than MAC, Do you know what I mean? :wink: Maybe in 10 years time the Panorama is Opposite

 

[ByronBlack]

I belived MAC is safer than windows only because Windows had more users than MAC, in the shoes of a hacker you want to catch as most people as posible. For example if you creatd a virus in Winodws there ir more probabilities that the malware will be in more computers than MAC, Do you know what I mean? :wink: Maybe in 10 years time the Panorama is Opposite

Andy we have already established this is not the case. The two systems are fundamentaly different are not the result of market share. There are millions of Mac users out there and are a targetted risk as much as the next system, the reason why it isn't as infected or as much as a risk as windows is that it's an inherently more secure system which stops most viruses or ad/maware installing itself unlike a windows system, although I believe that Vista has copied some of the OS X features in this regard, BUT windows as an operating system is much easier to infect due to numerous back-doors, and entry ways that have never really been dealt with, Internet Explorer being one of the most obvious examples, hence why I always recommend people to use Firefox.

 

[tnimble]

Andy we have already established this is not the case. The two systems are fundamentaly different are not the result of market share. There are millions of Mac users out there and are a targetted risk as much as the next system, the reason why it isn't as infected or as much as a risk as windows is that it's an inherently more secure system which stops most viruses or ad/maware installing itself unlike a windows system,

The Mac also has many back doors (as does other Unices and variant such as Linux based systems). The big difference to these back doors is that they are locked and there's a fence and a moat around the estate.

With windows the back doors are unlocked and in an alley but they are painted with bricks therefore they don't exist. When such a door has been detected to have been used they either place a chained poudle in front of it or move the door a few meters.

although I believe that Vista has copied some of the OS X features in this regard,

Vista is claimed to have solved all security problems with XP (liek they
have claimed for each and every other previous release). Although this system souds good its weak, both technologically and psychologically.

But even if this proves functional, but... [drumb roll] With Vista they have added a few new features. And with one of those features introduced the biggest security hole ever seen on windows. They have added DRM (digital rights management). With a couple of 'they do not exist' calls to a specific DLL you can store and run encryption and decryption to pay and play for protected media. Those methods could also be used to hide a virus, trojan or spyware directly into kernel space and render their presence and any operation executed invisible to any virus scanner, firewall such as zone alert and to the user.

BUT windows as an operating system is much easier to infect due to numerous back-doors, and entry ways that have never really been dealt with, Internet Explorer being one of the most obvious examples, hence why I always recommend people to use Firefox.

Outlook is probably a better example than Internet Explorer.

 

[tnimble]

While were at it, a bit off topic but please have a look at this (no bashing intended, its valid)