Grand Designs - Glass in Wood

[Anonymous]

Did anybody see Grand Designs last night? How could they put the glass into the oak frames without the frames cracking the glass over time? I'd have thought the beams would shift quite a lot over time. They didn't appear to leave much spacing round the glass. Does the oak really move enough to crack the glass?

Dave

 

[Chris Knight]

Dave,
Exactly the same thought occurred to me! No idea as to how it will turn out though.

 

[ByronBlack]

BY the looks of the fella who owned the project, I think he would just go out and re-mortgage and replace the windows! I was staggered at the amount of cash he had to shell out for that place. Beautifull though, but crazy money, how could he have let his insurance policy expire?? Feel sorry for them a bit though it must have been heartbreaking.

Was cool to watch the joinery on the massive oak beams though, excellent program.

 

[RogerM]

........... how could he have let his insurance policy expire?? Feel sorry for them a bit though it must have been heartbreaking.

I'm amazed his lender actually let that happen. Normally the lender's interest has to be noted on the insurance policy so that if the borrower doesn't pay, the lender is notified and pays it by capitalising it on the mortgage. The lender could have come unstuck on this one!

 

[jasonB]

I've seen glass fitted to oak frames a few times it is mostly fitted to the face with a coverstrip that gives the appearance of the glass being set into the frame. Or if it is actually set in then a large gasket is used to allow for movement. Theirs did seem a bit on the tight side.

I would be worried about the DG seal failing if the two layers of glass have slid by 10mm !!

Also they were overstating the weight of those wall plates by about TEN times, a 7.5m 7x7 green oak beam will weigh in at about 220kg not 2 tonne (2000kg) :!:

Jason

 

[Paul.J]

Davejester wrote
Did anybody see Grand Designs last night? How could they put the glass into the oak frames without the frames cracking the glass over time?
Hello Dave.
I watched it and that was the first thing i said.
Those panels were a tight fit. :roll:
Time will tell.
Paul.J.

 

[Ed]

Had to laugh when I saw this thread.

I said exactly the same thing about the windows when watching Grand Designs last night and my wife call me a sad woodworking nerd.

Nice to know I am not the only one

Ed

 

[RogerS]

Not seen the program as yet so may be way out but did the windows look like this

or are they much larger?

My windows are double-glazed K glass inset into a rebate in the frame then fixed with flexible glazing compound. Then a small moulding was fixed on top.

Have they cracked? One has but may not have been due to the frame twisting as there were other mitigating circumstances that might have been the cause.

 

[jasonB]

Have they cracked? One has but may not have been due to the frame twisting as there were other mitigating circumstances that might have been the cause.

You should know better than spinning the S2000's wheels on all that gravel or did you park a bit too close :wink:

Jason

 

[tinfoil]

Also winced when I saw the apparent lack of expansion/gasket provision with that glazing!

We built this double height conservatory at the bottom of the garden a couple of years ago. The frame is Western Red Cedar and the end dg units are 3.2m high - which is about as tall as is possible in simple glazing. Made sure there was some tolerance around the glass. Being nice and soft, the cedar should accomodate anything untoward. Oak? - it'll be like iron in a year or so won't it?



No cracks yet............... I shouldn't have said that should I..............

 

[ProShop]

Also they were overstating the weight of those wall plates by about TEN times, a 7.5m 7x7 green oak beam will weigh in at about 220kg not 2 tonne (2000kg) :!:

Jason

I thought the same, you can't shift 2 ton that easily.

and if the units had moved 10mm I'd have been taking them back.

 

[Shultzy]

Just watched the re-run and agree with all the comments, that glass was a tight fit. Nice to know he was supporting the Norfolk reed cutters, and the thatcher made a very nice job on the roof. I like to see real craftsmen's work, its a pity a lot of it is dying out.

PS did you clock the scene where they were all wearing hard hats .... except the baby!! :?

 

[RogerS]

Have they cracked? One has but may not have been due to the frame twisting as there were other mitigating circumstances that might have been the cause.

You should know better than spinning the S2000's wheels on all that gravel or did you park a bit too close :wink:

Jason

:lol: :lol: I had a roll of underlay leaning at an angle against the inside pane..just touching at the top. Overnight we had a cold frost and the next morning there was a craze of cracks..all emanating from where the underlay was touching the glass. Guess some form of freakish expansion/contraction differential caused it.

 

[Matt1245]

I said exactly the same thing about the windows when watching Grand Designs last night and my wife call me a sad woodworking nerd.

Nice to know I am not the only one

I tell my mrs all the model numbers of the tools there using. She thinks i'm sad too!!!

Matt.

 

[Chris Knight]

I said exactly the same thing about the windows when watching Grand Designs last night and my wife call me a sad woodworking nerd.

Nice to know I am not the only one

I tell my mrs all the model numbers of the tools there using. She thinks i'm sad too!!!

Matt.

You guys have to educate your wives better! Mine said the same thing about the windows fractionally before I did. She is also my number one helper in the workshop when I need another pair of hands for a glue up - mind you my endearment of "Glue-Girl" seems to be wearing a bit thin these days..

 

[Keith Smith]

"Glue-girl" :roll: Chris you really know how to sweep a girl off her feet with that silver tongue. :lol:

I made an oak greenhouse a few years ago with king post roof trusses which were directly glazed. When I fitted the glass one of the panes was tight and it cracked after about six months. I replaced it with one that was a better fit and I haven't had any problems since. So although I wouldn't have fitted them that way myself they may well get away with it. I hope so it was a very nice job.

Except for the four poster bed oh dear

 

[ProShop]

Except for the four poster bed oh dear

I was speechless when I saw that

Nice house, shame about the bed :roll:

- mind you my endearment of "Glue-Girl"

Hmmm Think I'll try that one, I'll let you know how I get on

 

[Simon]

The latest thinking on glazing green oak directly, is to use panels direct on top of glazing tape, in a rebate on the front of the frame and to top off with glazing tape and air dried oak finishing panels to cover the joints. if these panels are done well they look like an extension of the inside frame.

However the glazing panels must be toughened glass, which will cope with some movement of the frame which is inevitable during drying. Remember though that nearly all the shrinkage happens across the grain so there is almost no shrinkage along the grain. Factors that help minimise frame movement are the design of the frame and careful cutting of the joint elements to ensure that there is minimal movement at the joints. So even though tenons and mortices may be 2" x 4" x 4" it doesn't mean that you don't cut them to very close tolerances, which I am sure Tim Walton (a fellow Carpenters Fellowship member....UK Timber Framing body ....real timber framing that is) will have done.

Watching that programme I was surprised at how little gap was left and the offset between the panes was not ideal (I would have sent them back to have them rebuild them). The glazing was also inside the frame which I personally don't like.

If anyone is interested in more info this is a good presentation by Westwind's Rupert Newman, whose recent book on Oak Framing is a great overview of oak framing practice:

www.bath.ac.uk/bre/events/timber%20semi ... wind%20Oak).ppt

 

[Chris Knight]

Simon,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for that informative post. Out spamulator caught your link as a new poster. Herewith the link:-

http://tinyurl.com/33hhwg