Four Chisel Steels Compared

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interesting stuff, particularly the gap between the standard offerings of O1 and A2, and the PM-V11/white steel.
 
Yes interesting, I have just bought myself a pm-v11 plane blade for my bevel up jack. I haven't noticed much difference with edge life, though it doesn't seem to chip the same. I must say though its a much nicer blade than the a2 to sharpen, it seems to grip the paper better, whereas the a2 skated across it.

John
 
Derek you don't say what angle they were all sharpened at which surely will affect things like the blades chipping?
Are you at the Subiaco stadium for the Western Force vs Lions game?
Best regards
Mark
 
Hi Mark

I wrote: All the bevels of the 1/4" chisels were ground and honed at 30 degrees, while all the 3/4" chisels bar the Veritas were also at 30 degrees. The Veritas was at 25 degrees (why? Because I generally use it that way and did not think to change the bevel angle).

Western Force vs Lions at Subiaco? I did not know they were playing - I love rugby, grew up playing it like a religion, but Western Australia is such a Aussie Rules state that it has not had any publicity. I'll probably catch the game on tellie.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
speeder1987":263fewwa said:
Yes interesting, I have just bought myself a pm-v11 plane blade for my bevel up jack. I haven't noticed much difference with edge life, though it doesn't seem to chip the same. I must say though its a much nicer blade than the a2 to sharpen, it seems to grip the paper better, whereas the a2 scared across it.

John

Not very good is it? I'd send it back if I was you. I thought the whole point of pm-vII was it's astonishing edge retention.
 
MIGNAL":2yfygso8 said:
speeder1987":2yfygso8 said:
Yes interesting, I have just bought myself a pm-v11 plane blade for my bevel up jack. I haven't noticed much difference with edge life, though it doesn't seem to chip the same. I must say though its a much nicer blade than the a2 to sharpen, it seems to grip the paper better, whereas the a2 scared across it.

John

Not very good is it? I'd send it back if I was you. I thought the whole point of pm-vII was it's astonishing edge retention.

No I don't think I agree with that sorry. I didn't say it was no good. I haven't noticed any longer edge life doesn't mean it isn't longer, I've been using it for mainly end grain shooting, so I sharpen regularly anyway. It also doesn't seem to chip the same contrary to what Derek found. I also find it easier to sharpen which is a big plus for me.

I can't directly compare with my a2 blade because the a2 blade has a bevel angle of 25°, my pm-v11 has a bevel angle of 35°, hence why I got the extra blade. But this may be a factor as to why it doesn't chip the same.

I would say it is a better blade than the a2 steel, though only marginally, however can it justify almost twice the price tag for marginal improvements ..... no I don't think it can

John
 
Sorry Derek don't know how I missed that. Interesting review - and quite surprising in some ways how poorly the A2/O1 fared
Thanks again
Mark
 
BB - you can glean some useful information on some steels from the Rutlands web site if you look up the details on various Japanese knives.
A little off tack, but worth a look.
 
bugbear":3t9s5xr5 said:
I found an authoritative (or at least confident) statement on the composition of "white steel"

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelg ... hrn=1&gm=0

(although as Derek points out, there's more to a tool than the chemicals in the steel)

BugBear

Hello,

The steel composition here is very similar to T10 steel that Quiancheng use for their pane irons. I think the carbon content is a little lower in T10 around .9 to1 percent. I read somewhere that carbon above 1 percent is pretty much redundant unless tungsten or vanadium were present, and the excess C was there to form carbides. In which case, it may be down to the hammering during forging which makes the white steel better than 'normal' HCS.

Or else, Quiancheng should make chisels!

The thing is, all these new exotic steels are to try and make, with metallurgy, the qualities found in steel from hammering during forging. It seems the powder metal comes close, but is so expensive, would it not be better to just hammer the HCS like Clifton do for their plane irons. Or laminating hard hammered steel to iron as Japanese chisels. If PM was cheaper and had comparable qualities, it might be worth the exercise, but can't decent Japanese chisels be bought for a similar price to PM-V11? Is there a market for traditional hammers steel, Western style chisels, or laminated ones?

Veritas have their chisels made from exotic stuff, as there is, apparently, no real traditional forging done in North America anymore. Blue spruce as well, CNC machined from steel billets, rather than forgings.

Has anyone tested A2,PM, chisels compared to Ashley Iles chisels, who at least forge. Is a drop hammer involved with Ashley Iles, too?
Axminster also sell a Westonised Version of Japanese chisels, though factory made and p probably poor relations. But it does suggest that a Westonised version of Japanese chisels might be something worthwhile, as an alternative to exotic steel.

Mike
 
It's easy to get carried about with (just) steel composition. "Back in the day" almost all the tools coming from Sheffield were made from nigh-identical steel types, but anyone claiming that a Marples was the same as an Ibbotson would have got short shrift from the craftsmen at both firms.

This forum has already had a long discussion about the varying performance of tools in A2 from various manufacturers.

BugBear
 
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