First post, total newbie, what plane to use for Oak endcaps

[chrisgatguis]

Hi all,

my first post here and also my first real wood working I've done in about 15 years and that was only school stuff... so basically a total newbie..

I'm part way through building a workbench as in the picture attached, the two slabs are pine and the end caps are oak and are mortice and tenon together..

I'd already planed the two slabs flat at the beginning when i glued them up and as a result they are about 3mm narrower than the end caps.

Ideally I want the end caps to be flattened to the same height as the rest of the top so i need to take that few mm off..

The only plane I've got is a #4 (I think) cheap plane from BnQ (its handled all the pine no problem) but it just wont touch the oak at all; I've sharpened it on an oil stone I've got which leaves it sharp enough for the pine but i'm just doing the bevel by hand so couldn't say what angle i've put on it.. What would be the recommended plane(s) to use to work something hard like oak?


As i've said above i'm new to all this but really enjoying it so far, spent most of this month on this and its slowly taking shape..

thanks in advance

Chris

 

[carlb40]

Welcome.

What grit of stone are you using? It might not be fine enough to get a really good sharp edge for the oak. If you have 3mm to plane off? I would first cut most of it off with a saw, then finish trimming with the plane. If you can get the blade really sharp it will be ok.

 

[undergroundhunter]

Does the plane still work on the pine or is it just the oak it will not cut?

Matt

 

[chrisgatguis]

Hi thanks for the quick replies,

Yes the plane still cuts the pine no problem,

Maybe 3mm is a bit much maybe 1-2mm in reality.. it's down to how I've built it and also i thought about flattening the top using a router so wasn't bothered originally about the difference in hight..

Flattening with a router could still be an option I suppose but I've found it rewarding using the plane method on the slabs etc

 

[Billy Flitch]

I could be wrong but when people just start wood working my experience has taught me that they really don't know what sharp is. Here is a little test take the iron out of the plane and hold a piece of paper in the air with your index finger and your thumb now try to slice a piece off the paper with the iron, if it cant do that it is not sharp.

I`m not even going to begin to tell you how to sharpen it just type sharpen in the search button and away you go. Good luck.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I thought I knew how to sharpen until I started reading here.

Can you shave your forearm (dry) with the edge you get? It's another good test, albeit a bit itchy if you wear short sleeves and woolly jumpers.

Thing one, get one of these:
(other places have them, too). There are others around, but IMHO these are as easy as any to get the hang of, and they're very cheap considering.

Thing two: try "scary sharp" it really works and needs gentleness rather than the specific, practiced technique that freehand honing does. I have absolutely no doubt that once you've got the knack, freehand is faster and probably better as you should get a marginally stronger edge, but until you do... The honing guides also work on stones.

Close up the plane mouth to be around 1-3mm and set it to take as fine a shaving as you can initially (more open for pine). Use candle wax on the sole - it really reduces friction. Expect to have to re-sharpen (hone) frequently, say every 10-15 min, or less if using it heavily. If you re-sharpen the moment it starts to 'go off', it's quicker, and requires less effort than pushing on regardless.

If any of that helps, be encouraged. It can be done.

When you've conquered the present problem, do some searches on plane fettling or 'setting-up' - smooth, dead-flat base, clean mouth, flat frog, straight chipbreaker edge, good blade, etc. You _can_ transform a very average plane into a good user, but it takes a bit of effort. As sold the cheap metal ones are very unlikely to work really well (unless you know exactly how to set them up, and even then...). What you pay for in the expensive stuff is accuracy in manufacture, quality of materials, and setup largely done in the factory, rather than by the user.

The bench looks nice, too.

E.

 

[bugbear]

When you say the plane "won't touch" the oak, do you mean it just skims over the top without cutting, or that it stops dead and won't take a shaving?

BugBear

 

[chrisgatguis]

Thanks Eric some great tips there I'm going to get one if those and some new means of sharpening after I've read up a bit more...

I'm hopeful that that is my issue now as it is definitely not as sharp as you all have eluded to..

Bugbear - yes the first bit i.e it just skims over it - almost like I've not let the blade out enough, I then let more out (too much) and it suddenly bit right in.

Thanks all

 

[carlb40]

Thanks Eric some great tips there I'm going to get one if those and some new means of sharpening after I've read up a bit more...

I'm hopeful that that is my issue now as it is definitely not as sharp as you all have eluded to..

Bugbear - yes the first bit i.e it just skims over it - almost like I've not let the blade out enough, I then let more out (too much) and it suddenly bit right in.

Thanks all

It will just need sharpening / setting up properly. You need to close the mouth up and take shallow cuts on end grain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEkhZyszw38

 

[undergroundhunter]

I think its difficult to know what sharp is until you have been shown in person, maybe there is a member close by who could hep you out with this. Where abouts in the north east are you? Alternatively post the iron to me and I will sharpen it for you and send it back next day then you will know what sharp really is.


Matt

 

[rafezetter]

Hi chrisgatguis - welcome. Well you've just had one of the first important real lessons in woodworking, I had the same experience only 3 weeks or so ago and in the same way - my plane; an old record #4 cut pine just fine, but oak showed me the reality of what I was (or wasn't) doing. I was sharpening to 600grit on a diamond stone (with a guide as per the other post), which is higher than the basic oilstones that only go to 250 grit, and could just about take shavings if the blade was set to almost nothing, but it was less long smooth planing curls and more shorter thicker niblets.

Now, I'm looking at buying sharpening stones (or scary sharpening set) that go to at least 3000 grit minimum to stand any chance of reasonable shavings on oak, and preferably to 8-10,000 so it's a smoother action and doesn't feel like you're planing concrete.

Here's the link for my recent thread as there's some very good advice included. - It starts asking about 3rd party chipbreakers as I'd heard they can improve a plane immensely for a small extra outlay, but then I go on to explain why I'm asking (the same problem as you)..

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/3rd-party-chipbreakers-t76382.html

I'd also look up fettling a hand plane both here and elsewhere and watch some utube vids, as the B&Q special you have is prolly not quite ready (as most in that price range aren't, out of the box), which may help to make things better - even with just the pine. It's almost always worth the time to do, and you'll get to know your plane parts better - and it'll help you to identify in the future when a plane is damaged or too far gone to be worth the effort (sole / sides too far out of true, frog badly seated etc etc). First thing to check before anything else is the sole and sides against a good known straight edge - anything more than a mm out along any axis on the sole and you'd be better off returning it regardless of if you've used it as it'll take you ages to flatten it out, and if you do return it, just tell them it's out of true - which is what a #4 plane sole MUST be above anything else.

Edit - Nice bench btw (I've not got one of those yet!) - but I hope you are going to put some solid legs on it (with bracers to prevent "racking" - look that one up I had to 1st time.), as otherwise those fold legs will have that lump of wood on your toes the first time you put a bit of wood on it and push to plane it.

 

[chrisgatguis]

Hi all,

good news, I spent some time in the garage last night and worked on sharpening the plane as best I could.. Luckily I found a (very old) honing guide and spent a good while sharpening it etc..

I don't know what grit my stone is as you've said above if its only a few hundred grit then I think I'll get a new one ordered and see how sharp I can get it..

The result was a good one though, as soon as I'd sharpened it I was able to plane the oak down, at first the shavings were small tight spirals (which still was getting the job albeit slowly). I then re sharpened and set the angle slightly shallower on the bevel (so from about 30 degrees to just below) and that seemed to make the biggest difference - I was then getting pretty long (4 inch plus) shavings off which made it so much quicker..

As a result of all this my end caps and all my bench top are the same height and nice and flush (will probs go over the whole lot once I get the legs all done as its not the most stable thing at the minute - this was mostly just so I can flip the top over so that I can work on the M & T for the legs )

rafezetter - thanks for the comments - yes I'm going to make the legs next, I've got 4 X 4's for the legs and 3 X 2's for the rest of the base.. I'm looking forward to doing this next bit now as I've been doing the top since the back end of December!

thanks all

 

[carlb40]

Excellent news there. Make sure you take plenty pics, we like pics on here.

 

[chrisgatguis]

lol don't worry on that one, I've got tonnes and loads of video too..

When I'm done i'll put it on the forum

 

[Sheffield Tony]

The result was a good one though, as soon as I'd sharpened it I was able to plane the oak down, at first the shavings were small tight spirals (which still was getting the job albeit slowly). I then re sharpened and set the angle slightly shallower on the bevel (so from about 30 degrees to just below) and that seemed to make the biggest difference - I was then getting pretty long (4 inch plus) shavings off which made it so much quicker..

Is it a dumb question to ask if you are sure you have the iron in the right way up ? If this is an ordinary #4, the bevel should normally be downwards, and so angle should not be terribly important unless it is steeper than 35-40 degrees or so, at which point it won't plane at all because the cutting edge doesn't contact the workpiece. Ignore me if I'm asking a silly question, but to my reckoning the angle of the bevel should not change the shape of the shaving much.

If it is in the right way up, my guess is that the very edge of the bevel was rather steeper than 30 degrees. Very easy (and tempting - less metal to remove !) to get steeper than intended when hand sharpening.

 

[chrisgatguis]

Hi,

dumb questions are fine by me lol... but no it was the right way up

its possible the angle was higher I suppose.. My guide said overhang the blade by an inch to get 30 degrees, but the second time I did it at 1 inch and an eighth for a lower angle (I think!) and that seemed better

 

[carlb40]

Yes with guides, the further out the blade projects the shallower the angle becomes.