Engineered floor cost

[talkshowhost]

Hi,

First post as everyone seems so knowledgable so go gently

We are currently getting an engineered floor laid by a friend of the in laws who lays floors and just wanted to run the price past you to see if it seems reasonable? We didn't get any other quotes as we just trusted them.

The total we have been quoted is £3,150. This includes the wood, underlay, skirting, bars, materials, beads etc. He was also laying the lino in our bathroom about 2.5m sq but we had bought this already.

I priced up the wood and it comes to about 1,350 (40 sqm), underlay about £100 and skirtings (30m) about £160-£175 but he said he could get things cheaper at trade prices. This leaves about £1,500 for everything else including laying it.

We will get a breakdown of everything once he has finished but want to be prepared. We are happy to pay this of course if it sounds reasonable.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[red dave]

Hi,

First post as everyone seems so knowledgable so go gently

We are currently getting an engineered floor laid by a friend of the in laws who lays floors and just wanted to run the price past you to see if it seems reasonable? We didn't get any other quotes as we just trusted them.

The total we have been quoted is £3,150. This includes the wood, underlay, skirting, bars, materials, beads etc. He was also laying the laminate in our bathroom about 2.5m sq but we had bought this already.

I priced up the wood and it comes to about 1,350 (40 sqm), underlay about £100 and skirtings (30m) about £160-£175 but he said he could get things cheaper at trade prices. This leaves about £1,500 for everything else including laying it.

We will get a breakdown of everything once he has finished but want to be prepared. We are happy to pay this of course if it sounds reasonable.

Many thanks in advance.

Get more Quotes
Dave

 

[talkshowhost]

Thanks Dave although the floor is almost done so it would be difficult to get other quotes now.

 

[Lons]

Sounds a little heavy if it was a simple square room but it depends on how many doorways, fireplace etc to cut around. Laminate to the bathroom can be a pita.

Worth getting it done properly though as the materials cost is too high to risk problems later.

I refuse to lay laminate flooring as my labour charges would be much more than the laminate and most customers can't understand that.

Bob

 

[talkshowhost]

Thanks Bob I can't help but feel it seems a little high but like you say it is worth paying to get it done properly.

Sorry it isn't laminate in the bathroom but lino so should be straight forward for that (edited the ordinal post)

 

[mseries]

I came across a tradesmens forum earlier this year and I think a couple of layers were arguing about charges, They were talking about £15-£20 per square metre IIRC. Don't think that included extras. I recall that when I ordered my laminate, I got 13 square metres, the supplier's website said a local fitter would be about £200.

 

[nev]

Apologies if this comes over as a rant.
If a tradesperson quotes you £xxxx to to do a job, and you agree that price is acceptable, that is the price to pay.
If you were worried whether you were being overcharged and wished to shop around for prices and opinions then that should have been done BEFORE giving the tradesperson the go ahead.
If the tradesperson does not do the job they said they would, or to the expected standard then by all means discuss either remedies or discount, but no person with decency or common courtesy should agree to a price, have the work done and THEN haggle on price once the job is done to a satisfactory standard!
I do not know nor wish to know what you do for a living, but I can almost guarantee that you'd be well pineappled off if the person paying your wage decided that they would give you a lot less because some random strangers told them they were maybe paying over the odds for a job they have not even seen.
The price you agreed to pay is the price you should pay. It is a verbal contract. HONOUR IT!

 

[Lons]

Apologies if this comes over as a rant.
If a tradesperson quotes you £xxxx to to do a job, and you agree that price is acceptable, that is the price to pay.
If you were worried whether you were being overcharged and wished to shop around for prices and opinions then that should have been done BEFORE giving the tradesperson the go ahead.
If the tradesperson does not do the job they said they would, or to the expected standard then by all means discuss either remedies or discount, but no person with decency or common courtesy should agree to a price, have the work done and THEN haggle on price once the job is done to a satisfactory standard!
I do not know nor wish to know what you do for a living, but I can almost guarantee that you'd be well pineappled off if the person paying your wage decided that they would give you a lot less because some random strangers told them they were maybe paying over the odds for a job they have not even seen.
The price you agreed to pay is the price you should pay. It is a verbal contract. HONOUR IT!

I agree 100% with every word of that Nev but I'm not sure that the OP has really suggested that he wouldn't pay up though it's a bit late now the job is well on its way.

I've only ever had 1 customer do that to me and I told him to pay up in full or I would demolish the work - he paid. Had the balls to ask me to do another job for him a few weeks later and was a bit surprised when I told him he was on my blacklist :lol:

Worst example I heard of was a mate who had a tile shop and fitting service. They quoted nearly £6k to fit a bathroom which was accepted and the job done to a high standard. Invoice handed over then the customer (a solicitor) said "now let's discuss price" and he knocked 20% off the bill and refused to pay more. My mate, the silly person, let it go and took the hit. There are words for people like that! :roll:

Bob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A guy fitting my bathroom (who is very, very good) said he'd only been seen off twice in twenty years - once by a solicitor, once by an accountant.

 

[talkshowhost]

Nev I completely agree with you and no there is no way I wouldn't pay up but this is a friend of a friend and we haven.t so much as seen a breakdown of how this is being charged.

This really stems from the fact we were led to believe the wood we we paying for was more expensive than what it was and when he dropped it off and having since googled it I was looking for advice on whether it seems reasonable after seeing the cost. I have no idea how much materials cost etc so of course I am happy to pay if it seems right.

I'm sure you can appreciate that if what we are paying for is not what was supplied.

 

[Graham Orm]

Nev I completely agree with you and no there is no way I wouldn't pay up but this is a friend of a friend and we haven.t so much as seen a breakdown of how this is being charged.

This really stems from the fact we were led to believe the wood we we paying for was more expensive than what it was and when he dropped it off and having since googled it I was looking for advice on whether it seems reasonable after seeing the cost. I have no idea how much materials cost etc so of course I am happy to pay if it seems right.

I'm sure you can appreciate that if what we are paying for is not what was supplied.

You really are closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. As it's such a large amount you should have asked for a break down before if you had any misgivings. Maybe what you should take from this is a lesson. If he has bought the flooring at a lower price than he estimated it to cost then good for him. He's self employed and out to make a profit. He quoted you a figure for the job which wasn't variable depending on what discount he gat get on the goods.
As previously stated if someone did it to me I'd give them 5 minutes to pay up before removing the floor. Remember all materials supplied by the contractor are his property until you pay him.

Nutshell: He quoted a price you agreed on, if the job is what you expected pay him.

 

[PAC1]

Nev I completely agree with you and no there is no way I wouldn't pay up but this is a friend of a friend and we haven.t so much as seen a breakdown of how this is being charged.

This really stems from the fact we were led to believe the wood we we paying for was more expensive than what it was and when he dropped it off and having since googled it I was looking for advice on whether it seems reasonable after seeing the cost. I have no idea how much materials cost etc so of course I am happy to pay if it seems right.

I'm sure you can appreciate that if what we are paying for is not what was supplied.

You really are closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. As it's such a large amount you should have asked for a break down before if you had any misgivings. Maybe what you should take from this is a lesson. If he has bought the flooring at a lower price than he estimated it to cost then good for him. He's self employed and out to make a profit. He quoted you a figure for the job which wasn't variable depending on what discount he gat get on the goods.
As previously stated if someone did it to me I'd give them 5 minutes to pay up before removing the floor. Remember all materials supplied by the contractor are his property until you pay him.

Nutshell: He quoted a price you agreed on, if the job is what you expected pay him.

Two points
If the quote was accepted which given the work has commenced seems likely therefore you are contractually bound to pay

In relation to taking away the flooring it is not true to say the materials remain the contractors until paid for. The starting point is that once materials are incorporated (fixed) into a house they become the property of the house owner. If you remove them after installation you run the risk of committing criminal damage unless your contract expressly states that the materials remain yours until paid for. Wanting to destroy the work is an understandable reaction but it is not legally advisable

 

[petermillard]

OK, so now I'm a bit confuddled. In your first post you sounded like you were querying they guy's fees for the job, but now you think you're being overcharged for the materials?? There are so many things we don't know here - you obviously didn't you get an itemised estimate of costs before the job started, but you must have had a least a verbal 'ball-park' cost as I presume you're basing the £3150 on something, so was it an estimate or a fixed quote? Did you pay any deposit or material costs in advance? Is it a straightforward fitting job, or is he taking up the existing flooring as well. And if so, is he also responsible for the managed waste disposal? And as Lons mentioned above, the size and shape of the room(s) fireplaces, thresholds etc... makes a huge difference to how quickly you can get the job done...

Re. the cost of the flooring; it's entirely possible that the guy gets a discount from his favoured local flooring supplier that he passes along to you, but which is still more expensive than you would pay from some flooring warehouse in the midlands for the same thing. It is always your right to supply the flooring yourself, but if, say, one (or more) of those packs of flooring is bad, it'd be down to you to put this right. Good luck sending a couple of packs of flooring back to FloorsRus in Solihull for replacement at anything approaching a reasonable cost, especially with your fitter sitting on his hands with the meter running... So, you're not paying him to buy the flooring on your behalf, you're also paying for him to take responsibility for it. Worth every penny, I'd say...

And as for fees - very broadly speaking £1500 in London will get you about a week's work out of someone self-employed, maybe a bit less if there are third-party costs in there as well e.g. waste disposal. Even parking can easily add £100-odd per week to the job. Is that high? Sure, it's London, everything costs a bit more here <shrug>

HTH Pete

 

[Graham Orm]

Something else missed by all is the fact that skirtings are mentioned in the opening post. Is he fitting new skirtings throughout as well as the flooring?

Which talk show do you host?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I priced up the wood and it comes to about 1,350 (40 sqm), underlay about £100 and skirtings (30m) about £160-£175 but he said he could get things cheaper at trade prices. This leaves about £1,500 for everything else including laying it.

Don't forget that although you might be able to buy the materials for about £1,610, and he may be able to get a discount because he is in the trade, this may have little obvious relationship to what he charges for the them. Let's say he can get the materials for £400 or £500 less than your prices. Your installer probably has a mark-up on top of this, so he might be adding 50% or more to his costs, so there could something like £1800 set aside for this element of the job. I know that some people think this is unfair and rail against it, but if the contractor doesn't apply a mark up how is he going to get paid for his time and other costs to source, collect and deliver the goods to a job?

For some reason it seems to be a fairly common belief amongst clients of woodworkers, contractors, builders, etc that their contractor should resell goods they buy at cost, which is unrealistic. I'm not suggesting this is your attitude, but it is a factor that's sometimes either forgotten or overlooked in discussions about charges for jobs. Slainte.

 

[Graham Orm]

I priced up the wood and it comes to about 1,350 (40 sqm), underlay about £100 and skirtings (30m) about £160-£175 but he said he could get things cheaper at trade prices. This leaves about £1,500 for everything else including laying it.

Don't forget that although you might be able to buy the materials for about £1,610, and he may be able to get a discount because he is in the trade, this may have little obvious relationship to what he charges for the them. Let's say he can get the materials for £400 or £500 less than your prices. Your installer probably has a mark-up on top of this, so he might be adding 50% or more to his costs, so there could something like £1800 set aside for this element of the job. I know that some people think this is unfair and rail against it, but if the contractor doesn't apply a mark up how is he going to get paid for his time and other costs to source, collect and deliver the goods to a job?

For some reason it seems to be a fairly common belief amongst clients of woodworkers, contractors, builders, etc that their contractor should resell goods they buy at cost, which is unrealistic. I'm not suggesting this is your attitude, but it is a factor that's sometimes either forgotten or overlooked in discussions about charges for jobs. Slainte.

I'm often asked if I can get a trade discount for them on anything. I just say 'no'. They expect me to give them the discount then go and collect and deliver the stuff. Funny really when you think about it.

 

[joethedrummer]

Pay the man, but remember all this if you have another job done.

forgot to mention ,engineered wood and laminate are considerably different things as are lino and vinyl sheet (bathroom)

 

[Lons]

I'm often asked if I can get a trade discount for them on anything. I just say 'no'. They expect me to give them the discount then go and collect and deliver the stuff. Funny really when you think about it.

Me too occasionally and my answer is the same as yours though I openly give them the reasons you quote after which the mostly understand.
I'm very clear in that I won't normally fit anything I haven't supplied unless small items like mirrors, bog roll holder etc. Never have a problem. Was one guy long ago who said "I can get those much cheaper on the internet" and he got a polite reply, "that's fine and perhaps you can find someone on the net to fit them for you at the same time".
Can't please them all and from my experience they're the kind of customers who won't pay up or give you grief - Don't need them!

Bob

 

[RossJarvis]

Maybe you need to think about what this job is costing the chappie doing the job? If he was on an average wage he'd be needing to clear at least £100 a day for his wage, on top of this he'll need National Insurance, money for tools and equipment, including transport and admin costs. Only if he can work every day. It's likely he'll have lots of time on top to do pricing and collecting stock etc, so £100 a day is a low limit in a poorly paid area. £200 a day is therefore a more sensible starting place, particularly if you think that they may not be able to do practical work every day. If you're in London, he'll probably need more money to survive. Are you sure the material costs are right? Remember, he's not just having to pay for the material, he's got to buy and maintain tools, transport, admin overheads etc.

If he does a very good job, then maybe you need to think that he deserves an above average wage. How many people do rubbish work, how many do average work and how many do excellent work?

Ultimately it boils down to whether you are able or willing to pay someone what they're worth.

If he's getting paid £1500 for two days work, above and beyond all his outgoings, then he's probably asking too much. If he's getting £1500 for 15 days work, then you're getting a bargain. If he turns up in a Bentley, then maybe ask if you can borrow it for a week as you've obviously paid enough for that to be a fair compromise.