Dust extraction

[Robinthree]

Hi guys
Iv been through a few threads in here regarding dust extraction but none I can find covers my specific needs so any help would be greatful
I'm about to re model my workshop, the dimensions are 11ft x 38ft
I'll be working alone and only need one machine running at a time and I'm on with sorting out my extraction as iv never had one before in my current single garage size workshop
Im wanting to hook up a table saw, band saw, chop saw, planer, router table , face sander and a loose one to attatch to my various power tools when needed. to run into a dust extraction system using multiple pipes with blast gates to close off the machines not in use
Would a 1-1.5hp unit like the sip 50lt one be ok for this? Or should I go for a second hand double bag unit of 2hp+. I plan to build a housing unit for it outside of the workshop and run it through so it's not a great issue about fine dust seeping through the filtration
Ps I don't have a 3phase supply and am working on a budget
Thanks

 

[Waka]

Both rated machines would fit your needs, I have a Perform 1.5HP extractor and it's excellent even with all the big machines.
I'm not familiar with the SIP one, does it have a drum? I ask this because disposing of the waste can be a bit messy if it is.
The other thing to consider is the price between the SIP and the double bagged version.

 

[Robinthree]

It is a 01929 - 50 Litre Dust & Chip Collector
Priced on eBay at £100 , it's a 1.5hp with a 500CFM airflow
It's a drum rather than bag system
It seems too good to be true that this oversized Henry Hoover type system at only £100 will be sufficient

 

[sploo]

Pipes/ducting and blast gates is a good idea - you'll lose far less suction vs trying to run long lengths of flexible hose.

The problem with dust extractor bags is that they're either good for chip collection (but will allow the dangerous fine particles to pass through) or they'll collect fine particles for a short time, before they get sandblasted with larger particles and then clog up and kill your airflow. As such I'd strongly recommend looking into a cyclone or Thien separator, then eject the exhaust air outside, rather than trying to filter it and return it to the workshop (which sounds mostly like what you're planning - but I'd find a way of ditching the bag).

More HP and CFM is always a good idea; but for something like the Fox F50-843 (http://www.poolewood.co.uk/acatalog/Dus ... 0_843.html) you'd need a 16 amp supply. If you're going to need to wire up the stable then it's not hard to add an MCB with the relevant lines.

This was my Heath-Robinson solution: http://spikyfish.com/DustExtraction/

 

[Robinthree]

Thanks for the great advice, I'm going to take it and spend the extra on the fox one, iv yet to get an electrician to wire up the stable with electrics so he can add a 16amp outlet for it while he's there

 

[sploo]

Thanks for the great advice, I'm going to take it and spend the extra on the fox one, iv yet to get an electrician to wire up the stable with electrics so he can add a 16amp outlet for it while he's there

No worries. It's worth getting it, as it sucks... if you get my meaning.

Go completely overboard on sockets - way more than you think you'll need. Same for dust extraction ports/ducting; you'll always find you wished you'd added more.

 

[Trout]

Sploo,
I too have been pondering how to set up a suitably powerful single phase extraction system, on a tight budget, for my idiosyncratic workshop. Your photographs and notes are the most helpful and well explained that I have come across after many hours spent trawling the net.
Thank you for posting and congratulations for your outstanding and inventive extraction system.
Trout

 

[Wizard9999]

Sploo

Likewise, I'd missed this one before. Super looking system and fantastic write up =D> . Looks like it was pretty newly installed this time last year when you shared, 13 months on any update, reflections, etc? One thing that worries me about venting outside is the heat lose, how did you find that aspect over te (admittedly generally mild) winter?

Terry.

 

[sploo]

Trout/Wizard9999 - you're welcome.

It was actually installed about 10 years ago!

Generally it's pretty good. I should have made the ducting a tiny bit wider, so I could have put the clear plastic in a dado, as opposed to a thin rebate - I've had issues with some parts "popping" out. I'd also recommend getting some polycarbonate, as that's much more tolerant of being bent (without cracking).

The ducting is suspended by looping gardening wire through the holes in the flanges, but that means it's actually not easy to remove a section for cleaning. I should have added a few more flanges or hanging points along the body of some of the longer sections, so more of it is hung from parts that aren't screwed to the next one. I suspect a full flange around the middle would also help to prevent the plastic popping out due to the glue line failing.

As noted on the page - the blast gates need to be wider to make them stronger, but fortunately that's not been too much of a problem.

I do notice dust collecting on the inside corner of some of the curved parts - I guess you lose airflow on the inside of the bend. A larger radius would help, but I can just tap the ductwork when the extractor is running to lift it into the air stream.

I find that the dual hose that connects the ducting to the extractor does tend to collect dust, so needs to be cleaned occasionally. It would have been better if the ducting was higher, so the hoses were on a more downward slope and/or straighter. Using smooth walled rigid pipe sounds good, but would probably transfer a lot of vibration from the extractor to the ducting.

Generally though it does work pretty well, and it just really needs a separator outside to make things less dusty.

As for heat loss - my garage has the thermal value of a wet teatowel, so it's pretty much always ambient inside. If it were better insulated then there would be merit in a cyclone with filters (and returning the filtered air to the garage). I've seen some guys have a valve system; whereby they eject outside on mild days, but recycle when it's really cold (or hot, for climates where your shop might be air conditioned).

 

[Trout]

Sploo,
Today I have started to look into purchasing a Fox F50 843 and I stumbled across a post in another forum where you were close to spitting venom regarding the service of your supplier and the quality of the machine itself. Your post was written when you were going through a very trying time with your new machine, did things resolve well and am I right to assume that you have been using the same extraction motor and fan for the last ten years?
Cheers, Trout

 

[sploo]

Sploo,
Today I have started to look into purchasing a Fox F50 843 and I stumbled across a post in another forum where you were close to spitting venom regarding the service of your supplier and the quality of the machine itself. Your post was written when you were going through a very trying time with your new machine, did things resolve well and am I right to assume that you have been using the same extraction motor and fan for the last ten years?
Cheers, Trout

Yea; I wasn't too impressed with the supplier. In the end I took it apart and found the centrifugal clutch for the starter had a poorly insulated wire and when it switched across it shorted out and tripped my RCD. Moving and insulating the wire sorted that and it's been running fine ever since. It's "just" a quality control issue; so if your supplier was happy to take a unit back at no cost if there were problems then you'll be fine. Frankly I suspect they're all far east made unless you go for something really specialist.

 

[TFrench]

Thats a really interesting way of doing the extraction sploo - I need to build a log/bin store next to my garage so incorporating something like this would be easy. How noisy is the exhaust outside? Are my neighbours going to want to kill me?

 

[sploo]

Thats a really interesting way of doing the extraction sploo - I need to build a log/bin store next to my garage so incorporating something like this would be easy. How noisy is the exhaust outside? Are my neighbours going to want to kill me?

It's not too bad - the impeller based systems are more of a low rumble than a high pitched whine. I do try to avoid running it on nice days when neighbours are outside though (but as much as anything it's because I'd then be running loud tools in the garage too, and it doesn't have much sound insulation).

It does tend to puff out some dust from the vent at the top (though it doesn't travel more than 1 meter). I guess I could put a really coarse mesh on the inside of the vent - so hopefully it wouldn't kill airflow, but would reduce dust coming out.

There are plenty of ways of making mufflers for exhausts - though you do tend to lose some suction due to the extra pipe work.

If I were doing it again I'd build a "top hat" style Thien separator outside (to reduce any ejected dust). At the time, I was thinking of a cyclone, but didn't have the required height - plus there was a greenhouse behind the garage that limited my floor area.