Depressive depression

[mailee]

Well so much for the depression. At work we have all been asked to sign a declaration stating that we will go home without any pay if there is no work for us. It is called zero hours which in effect means that we will be glorified contractors but without the benefits of tax relief or travel expense. At the moment there is no problem as we have plenty of work and there is overtime in abundance......but with the car market being in the mess it is this may end by March when the de fleeted cars come to an end. We have been told in no uncertain terms that if we do not sign we will be dissmissed! I can't see the advantage of living like this not being able to pay the bills or to be unemployed and look for work while the insurance pays the mortgage. Should I take this oppertunity to go self employed, bite the bullett and sign or something else. There is no redundancy payments which P**ses me off a bit as I have over thirteen years with them! They are also taking each person into the office individually asking them to sign or not, divide and defeat I suppose. What does anyone think about this situation I am undecided as to what to do at my age of 53.

 

[thejhw]

That's terrible, Mailee; you have my deepest sympathy.
I thought though, that current employment law meant that they could not change your terms and conditions of employment, they could not dismiss you for refusing to have them changed, and I'm not sure how it works but the maximum Statutory redundancy payment at the moment is £9,900. It goes up to 10,500 on 1st February 2009.
I really think you need to consult a solicitor, free of charge at the Citizens Advice Bureaux.

I wouldn't sign anything until you have spoken to a solicitor and wouldn't want to go self employed at the present time.
A builder pal of mine was saying yesterday that for the first time for 20 years, he has no work lined up once he's finished the current job.

I'm just really sorry for anyone in your position but there is some safeguard in law for you.

Best wishes for the future

Jim

 

[MIGNAL]

Mailee. The new terms and conditions of your employment pretty much describe . . . self employment i.e. no work, no pay.
Self-employment is great when things are ticking over. It isn't so when the order book is empty and the bills keep hitting the door mat.
I doubt that this is a good time to be setting up business unless you are extremely confident that you can obtain sufficient sales/work.

 

[Landy]

An employer may change your terms of employment my giving 90 days notice. However in your case I should seek advice before signing anything. Are you in a union and I would consult ACAS and see if they would intervene on behalf of the workforce as mediators.

It smacks of difficult times ahead by the employer.

 

[Chris Knight]

Alan,
That sounds pretty brutal and borderline illegal come to that. I think Jim is right on the statutory redundancy thing.

Having said that, I'd be inclined to make all the money you can while you can - as Mignal says going self employed at the moment seems rather risky.

 

[BradNaylor]

I'm no expert on employment law but this sounds unlawful to me.

They are asking you to sign away your rights to a redundancy payment; this they cannot do.

If they dismiss anyone for refusing to sign I would imagine that that person would have a very strong case for unfair dismissal.

It sounds like your firm is going bust and this is a desperate and ill-thought out ploy to save money.

I would suggest that you all get together and see a lawyer.

Dan

PS From what I've seen of your work you would have no problem making a living as a furniture maker.

Even in a recession.

Even in Grimsby! :wink:

 

[frugal]

The phase "Constructive Dismissal" comes to mind.

You should seek proper legal advise, but it does sound like you would have a case for refusing to sign a change to terms and conditions, and if they try to fire you because of it you would be in a good place to sue them.

The company can not force you to sign a change to T&Cs. The most they can legally do is to make you redundant if you refuse to sign, but even that would be a good case for constructive dismissal.

 

[PowerTool]

Pretty crappy choice to make,Alan
I work in chemical haulage,and November volumes were down over 20% on the previous month ; last month,the mighty BASF announced the closure of 80 plants worldwide,primarily those producing raw materials for the car industry - just another example of how others further down the line are affected by something like a downturn in car sales.

Andrew

 

[woodshavings]

Hi Mailee,

what they are asking is against employment law.
They cannot change your contract without your agreement.
If they force it on you, then you can claim constructive dismissal. They also cannot avoid paying you statutory redundancy if they have to let you go.

If you decide to start your own business, wait until you are made redundant to get the cash.


Have a word with your local CAB, they will help.
HTH
JOhn

 

[BradNaylor]

You should seek proper legal advise, but it does sound like you would have a case for refusing to sign a change to terms and conditions, and if they try to fire you because of it you would be in a good place to sue them.

I'm sure frugal is right. Unfortunately sueing for unfair dismissal is a waste of time and money if the firm going to go bust before the case is heard or before any money is paid out. A successful litigent is not a preferential creditor in the event of a liquidation.

It's a tough call. Mailee is entitled to a redundancy payment which the government will pay if his firm goes bust. He'll have to stay with them until the end, though. From memory it works out at 1.5 weeks pay for every year of service - so about 20 weeks pay.

If he goes now he could probably sue for unfair or constructive dismissal. But even if he won the case would he ever see any money?

 

[RogerS]

Mailee

PM sent

Roger

 

[gatesmr2]

Hiya Mailee

Don't know up to date employment laws but like the rest i'd say check on it as it sounds like very bad practice at the best.
Also check your insurance details i used to be self employed and a lot of them would not cover being out of work through no work, illness etc yes but having no work is different. Again its meant to have changed but i would check to make sure.

Martin