Deep dying wood?

[transatlantic]

Is it possible to have dye that penetrates deep down into the wood as opposed to just the surface?

I want to do some segmented (different colours of exotic wood) turning, but can't really afford to use exotic woods, at least not until I'm confident. So was wondering if I could immitate the exotic woods by dying pine. But for this to work, the dye would need to penetrate deep into the wood, so it can be turned/sanded

Would placing the segments into a bucket of dye and leaving them for a while (weeks? months?) penetrate deep into the wood? .. and how thick could I go?

 

[marcros]

i do not think that this would work.

If I were you, (and I have not done segmented turning), I would avoid pine, but would go for some cheap hardwood in contrasting colours. It need not be exotic to have contrast.

if cost is a consideration, you could probably get away with offcuts, but I feel that by introducing dyeing techniques, you are adding another variable to the learning process. black walnut, maple, sycamore, ash, beech, all have some interesting colours to them.

 

[MusicMan]

If the wood is moderately porous you might manage it by vacuum impregnation. Drainpipe, plugged at one end, filled with strong dye solution to cover the part, other end going to your shop vac. Not tried it but it is good for getting deep oil penetration in musical instruments. Of course, use the smallest drainpipe that will contain the part. If it is transparent you really see it fizz as the air comes out and is replaced by liquid. I've usually used a high vacuum pump but I think a shop vac would work. Worth a shot on a small piece.

Keith

 

[ED65]

You can dye wood through-and-through, but according to what limited information is available online it is (not surprisingly) limited to one or a few species that have the right structure. I'm not sure but I think it also requires either a vacuum chamber or a pressure chamber to force the dye into the wood as well.

If you could do this with pine, I don't think it would be particularly good practice for the final work you want to do seeing as how different the working properties of pine and the hardwoods you want to use are.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I can't recall seeing thicker sections of wood offered for sale that have been artificially coloured throughout, although I have seen, and once or twice used veneers treated this way. One supplier are these people: https://www.veneermerchant.co.uk/veneer ... ral/page-1 and I realise this doesn't answer your question because you're looking at doing this to solid wood.

I'm not sure how you might achieve what you're after, except perhaps trying, or modifying, methods already suggested by musicman and ED65, e.g., vacuum assistance. But, in theory, I think what you're after might be possible because wood is, after all, hygroscopic. For instance, if you were to submerge a block of wood in a full strength water wood dye, eventually that dye would permeate throughout the open vessels of the wood's vascular tissue, and once there, the dye element would be able to bind itself to the tissue of the cell walls. This, I suspect, is a similar process to that which occurs in timbers such as bog oak which have been submerged in wet peat for decades, sometimes even centuries.

However, having gone through this process you'd be faced with drying out the fully saturated wood of both its dyed free water and dyed bound water to make it dry enough to use, much the same as when the tree was initially felled, boarded up and dried. Unless you're really committed to working out how to achieve this through research, study and experimentation, I suspect it's more bother than a casual woodworker might want to devote to the exercise - although I could be all wrong about that! Slainte.

 

[Andy RV]

It's probably easier to buy the proper wood in the first place! Even if you managed to achieve the desired colours the grain pattern would spoil it.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've tried this many times. It's far from easy. The best I have obtained is to a depth of just over 1 mm, boiling it in a pressure cooker. A commercial pressure treatment set up will easily perform much better. Poplar is one of the woods that seems to take dye reasonably well. Of course time is also a huge factor, which is why bog Oak can appear Black, dyed all the way through. That reaction with the tannin seems to be a little easier than a straight aniline dye but that is neither easy or quick even in my home pressure cooker.

 

[transatlantic]

It does seem more effort than it is worth. I think I'll knock this idea on the head

 

[ED65]

The best I have obtained is to a depth of just over 1 mm, boiling it in a pressure cooker.

Was the 1mm into the end grain or along the grain?

It is possible to get dye to go much deeper than this into end grain, a handspan and more! I wonder how high the pressure needs to go to get this, or if vacuum is the way to go?

 

[MIGNAL]

No, end grain is very easy. Side grain is incredibly difficult. You need pressure and lot's of it. I've never tried the vacuum method but I doubt that's easy either. If this stuff was easy (or cheap to do) we would have had an Ebony substitute a long, long time ago. It's possible, not easy and home cooked pressure is not something one would want to mess around with without being in full control. I quickly realised that this stuff is difficult. Normal 0.5 mm veneer is relatively easy, even that can be harder than one would might imagine.