building surveys and cracks

[mickthetree]

Afternoon all

I'm in the process of buying and selling at the mo. The house we are looking at seems pretty sound all round. 1970s end terrace (staggered). Empty. I know it needs a new boiler, bathroom, kitchen, decorating throughout so going in with eyes open.

There is however a crack in the brickwork in the upstairs built in wardrobe which concerns me.

I had a full structural survey when we bought our current house and for my £750 was gutted at how flimsy and wooly it was. Made mention of numerous things and stated that each one would require further investigation from a specialist. My 2 year old son could have written it. From what I have read online it would appear that this is standard as they cannot be a specialists in plumbing, electrics, building etc and also they cannot provide costs for rectifying any issues.

I have been recommended a chartered surveyor who on the phone seems thorough, but says he will provide suggested costs of repair and will tell me what is causing the cracks I referred to. Sound too good to be true?

I have been recommended another but waiting a call back from him.

I was going to and ask for a specific Defect Report, but am assured that the full structural survey will cover that defect in full.

Your advice would be gratefully received.

 

[andersonec]

Is it front or back or partition wall, Is it only inside or does it show on the exterior brickwork, Is the crack in the centre of the wall or does it start at a corner, window cill, etc. Is it fairly new, if it is old has it been repaired before, is it new ish plaster (just dried out too quick)??????

There is a way of testing to see it has stopped and that is by epoxy-ing a thin strip of glass across the crack and see if it breaks, this may not be of any use to you as it will take time.

Andy

 

[mickthetree]

Thanks Andy.

In the upstairs of the house there is a brick wall dividing two bedrooms. This forms two wardrobes, one accessible form each bedroom.

Where the wall meets the ceiling there is a crack approx 10mm at its widest.

The wall below this one downstairs is only stud, but the layout looks original compared to other houses around there, so maybe it has always been like this.

I don't really see how even a structural engineer could actually determine what is causing this crack as its in the middle of the house upstairs and the downstairs wall is fine.

 

[carlb40]

If the walls upstairs are brick/block and downstairs is just timber. I would suspect a lack of proper support for the upstairs walls. To support them properly would need rsj's onto padstones within a brick/block wall.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had a full structural survey on my first house ('86) and in the back it specifically said that the surveyors were NOT liable for any information therein. When I moved ('92) my solicitor advised me to have a f.s.s. and I declined. After other business, he asked me to sign a disclaimer, and asked why. I explained about the first one, and told him that my working life was spent doing maintenance on an old building, I worked with builders, plumbers and sparkies, and I would take them with me for an hour and throw £100 on the bar of the local pub afterwards. He just smiled and said I'd find out a lot more that way, though he wasn't supposed to tell me that.

 

[Harbo]

10mm is quite a gap but I would be more concerned if it was on the outside i.e. brickwork?

Rod

 

[Lons]

Thanks Andy.

In the upstairs of the house there is a brick wall dividing two bedrooms. This forms two wardrobes, one accessible form each bedroom.

Where the wall meets the ceiling there is a crack approx 10mm at its widest.

The wall below this one downstairs is only stud, but the layout looks original compared to other houses around there, so maybe it has always been like this.

I don't really see how even a structural engineer could actually determine what is causing this crack as its in the middle of the house upstairs and the downstairs wall is fine.

In my experience it's unusual to find stud wall below a brick wall for obvious reasons of economy. A steel lintel would have had to be installed and brick is costlier to build than stud. Can you be absolutely sure that the wall below hasn't been altered at some stage?
Certainly would seem to be a support problem from below but likely not too difficult to reinforce so it doesn't move any further.

Bob

 

[Dibs-h]

Mick

Personally I would skip the Chartered Surveyor and get a Structural Engineer. They know what they are doing and you are more likely to end up with a proper solution\etc. than BS. No offence to Surveyors.

Dibs

 

[Steve Maskery]

This is a bit OT, but I once had a survey done on a house (which I subsequently did not buy) and the surveyor, who was recommended to me, came to my house and gave me a very thorough, verbal report on the state of the building. I didn't understand why he was so , what shall we say, conversational, until I got his written report.

He was illiterate.

It was all there, sort of, but written as if, as you say, by a 2 year old.

No judgement, just my 2p.
S

 

[andersonec]

As the other posts suggest, it seems as though the brick wall which is being supported by a stud wall is causing the crack. Although it may be strong enough to hold it up (the uprights are in compression) it really is not the best solution.
What really needs investigating is the direction the floor joists are running, are they parallel to the stud wall? if so your brick wall may be sitting directly on the stud wall, if the joists run 90 deg to the stud wall is the brick wall sitting on floorboards, whatever the answer a brick wall sitting on a wood wall (which does move due to vibrations etc) is almost guaranteed to be the reason for the crack.
As long as your exterior walls are sound it is almost proof of the diagnosis of the stud wall being the cause.

If you ever do buy it and want to change the wall to brick, just be sure to confirm the floor is concrete before they erect acrows to support the floor above, I was involved in a pub refurb some years ago, one of the changes was the staircase which was behind the bar was being removed, I went down into the cellar to alter some wiring only to realise the floor the builders had put the Acrow's on was a wood floor with no support, the same builder subsequently knocked another supporting wall down and nearly killed himself when the upstairs came down.

Andy

 

[Lons]

, the same builder subsequently knocked another supporting wall down and nearly killed himself when the upstairs came down.

There's always one idiot #-o

Bob

 

[No skills]

One? theres fecking loads round here, should see my neighbours work...

 

[Lons]

Yes, I know a few as well.

Whilst they give the industry a bad name, it actually doesn't do legitimate businesses like mine any harm at all as people are even more keen to use tradesmen from recommendations. As 100% of my business comes that way, I'm always busy enough.

Bob

 

[mickthetree]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
We had a third viewing of the property today. So worth while!!
We were quite rushed by the estate agent last time and I obviously got mixed up with a few walls.
So it turns out that the upstairs wall is stud. In fact every internal wall in the house is stud. The roof is sound, the exterior walls are sound, the floors are all sound.
It does need new kitchen, bathroom, boiler, decorating throughout, but we also found out today that it comes with a garage which was not included on the details. It is being sold directly on by an asset management firm and they just want the quickest turn around possible.

The only thing I have any concern about now is someone mentioned asbestos was used in 70s houses, but short of getting in an expert (with possible ulterior motives) there isnt much we can do about it. We're viewing again in a few days so I will make some checks to see if there is any, but looks like we are good to go!!

Dont want to get too excited as we've had three sales fall through now, but fingers crossed. (the misses is specing up a new kitchen as we speak!)