Badger Plane--Now with blade!

[Bod]

Couldn't walk away and leave this.

John Moseley & son, Bloomsbury, London.
Any idea of age?

No blade was with it, firstly would it have had a Cap iron?
If so would it have been specially shaped?
A normal woodie 2 1/2inch blade ground to the correct shape, would work?
I doubt a new cap iron and blade will be available now, so I'm now on the look out for a blade that can be made to fit.

Bod

 

[undergroundhunter]

While not conclusive I have a Moseley rebate plane that reads John Moseley and Son that is date stamped 1855. The later planes by Moseley said and Sons, I have no back up fro that other than I have quite a few planes by this maker. The cap iron on my marples badger plane is heavily skewed along with the iron, when I get back from work I will take some photos for you if needed.

Good find, what did it cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Matt

 

[Argus]

I’ve acquire a couple of Badgers over the years; one by Varvil of York, the other by Moseley, New Street, Covent Garden. Good planes for heavy rebate work, even if they have a tendency for a weakness on the right-hand side wall at the mouth – many have splits here.

Moseley were a prolific and long-established maker in London and seemed to have had various addresses. W L Goodmans’s “British Planemakers”, has an extensive entry with numerous iterations of the trade-mark for the Moseley firm in the 19th C.

All the Badgers I’ve seen are equipped with back-irons, as are both of mine and I have seen combinations of skewed blade/back-iron on the second-hand market from time to time.

However, if you see a skewed combination, be careful what replacements you buy as both mine have slightly different skew angles and while it’s possible to compensate a couple of degrees on the blade, it’s not so easy to adapt the back-iron. You may find variations on blade-width and skew-angles, even within the same manufacturer's ranges.

If you find a spare combination, try to offer it to the plane first off to see if it fits - even then you will, most likely, need to adapt the fit of the wedge.

It is possible to fit a single blade, I suppose, but it will need to be substantial thickness and you'll also need to re-make the wedge, as well as a lot of grinding at the tip. Seems a lot of work and expense to me for a plane that will never be worth more than 10 or 15 quid.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bod]

While not conclusive I have a Moseley rebate plane that reads John Moseley and Son that is date stamped 1855. The later planes by Moseley said and Sons, I have no back up fro that other than I have quite a few planes by this maker. The cap iron on my marples badger plane is heavily skewed along with the iron, when I get back from work I will take some photos for you if needed.

Good find, what did it cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Matt

Would you believe £1
From an "antique" dealer at a car boot.
Now to find a blade!
The plane is in wonderful order, all the right clean and dirty bits, no worm, bashed bits, or drying out.
It could have been taken apart for sharpening, and never picked up again.
I also got a wooden chamfer guide from the same source, Mr H Knight certainly used his tools, but took great care of them.
These will go into my treasure chest of tools, for use as and when required.

Bod

 

[undergroundhunter]

Would you believe £1
From an "antique" dealer at a car boot.
Now to find a blade!
The plane is in wonderful order, all the right clean and dirty bits, no worm, bashed bits, or drying out.
It could have been taken apart for sharpening, and never picked up again.
I also got a wooden chamfer guide from the same source, Mr H Knight certainly used his tools, but took great care of them.
These will go into my treasure chest of tools, for use as and when required.

Bod

Fantastic find for £1, its a shame that the iron is missing. Is the name definitely Knight and not Knights? My surname is Knights It would be interesting to see if it could be a relation as there isn't many families with the s on the end.

 

[D_W]

A conclusive check to see if it was double iron (as above, mine have been double iron, which is a godsend on the back side of a heavy cut) is to see if the abutments terminate in the middle of the wear on the closed side. If they do, then you know it was a double iron plane. In a single iron plane, the abutments can run all the way down to the mouth.

 

[Bod]

I’ve acquire a couple of Badgers over the years; one by Varvil of York, the other by Moseley, New Street, Covent Garden. Good planes for heavy rebate work, even if they have a tendency for a weakness on the right-hand side wall at the mouth – many have splits here.

Moseley were a prolific and long-established maker in London and seemed to have had various addresses. W L Goodmans’s “British Planemakers”, has an extensive entry with numerous iterations of the trade-mark for the Moseley firm in the 19th C.

All the Badgers I’ve seen are equipped with back-irons, as are both of mine and I have seen combinations of skewed blade/back-iron on the second-hand market from time to time.

However, if you see a skewed combination, be careful what replacements you buy as both mine have slightly different skew angles and while it’s possible to compensate a couple of degrees on the blade, it’s not so easy to adapt the back-iron. You may find variations on blade-width and skew-angles, even within the same manufacturer's ranges.

If you find a spare combination, try to offer it to the plane first off to see if it fits - even then you will, most likely, need to adapt the fit of the wedge.

It is possible to fit a single blade, I suppose, but it will need to be substantial thickness and you'll also need to re-make the wedge, as well as a lot of grinding at the tip. Seems a lot of work and expense to me for a plane that will never be worth more than 10 or 15 quid.

Hope this helps.

Would it be possible to have a photo of one of your blades with a back iron please?
I assume the back iron is angled to follow the blade edge, as per the normal bench planes.
Going by the normal shapes and cut outs in the plane mouth, and gap between wedge and body, I am confident that there is room for a back iron.

Bod

 

[tooooools]

Nice, looks like a plane which will scrub up well. Its got a good clear makers mark on the front nose which is a bonus.

There are some photos of badger planes on Old Tools with photos of the blade and cap iron including would you believe it, one of a John Moseley & Son, Bloomsbury, London

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/7-rebate-planes

Would have thought you could take a cap iron from a wooden jack plane and grind to correct angle.

I've got a badger plane kicking about, I'll dig it out and post a photo of the blade and cap iron.

 

[Argus]

I assume the back iron is angled to follow the blade edge, as per the normal bench planes.
Going by the normal shapes and cut outs in the plane mouth, and gap between wedge and body, I am confident that there is room for a back iron.

Bod

Yes, the back iron is formed to the same skew angle as the cutting iron, which should also conform to the same skew angle as the bed/mouth geometry of your plane - they really do need to be a matching set. I don't think that it's possible to adapt a spare straight back-iron to a skewed one.

I'm sorry to say that the lateral blade adjustment when in the slot on both my badgers is minimal. Not as much sideways adjustment as you'd get, say, on a conventional straight-bladed plane.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Well look at that. Looks just like mine in the background here:

The bits you need:

Mine has a well used, but probably original iron; makes it tricky to adjust because the top of the iron is now below the top of the wedge, so an extra tool is needed to tap it with the hammer. The cap iron obviously has to have the right angle to contact right behind the cutting edge, but I guess they might be soft enough steel to modify slightly ?

 

[Bod]

Thanks for the photos.
It looks like the Cap/back iron is going to be the interesting part to get right!
I'm going to have to get the blade ground to match the body, then make a cap iron to suit the blade angle.
How does the overall length of the Badger cap iron compare to a standard wooden plane cap iron?
Can I modify a standard, or will it have to be compleatly new?
Now to get a blade...Ad already in "Wanted section"

Bod

 

[Argus]

Try to measure the exact skew angle when the blade is mounted.

Both mine are slightly different and there is not much lateral adjustment in the throat on these planes.

 

[Bod]

As luck would have it, perusing a certain auction site, a tool shop came up, Lo and Behold, what do I find?
I Sorby, Badger plane blade, complete with cap iron.
Phone call and £20 later, its mine.
Less than 24hrs later the postman delivers. Thank you GandM Tools.

Now offering it up, I need to reduce the width slightly.
The blade originally, one side was relieved to avoid the edge of the rebate, now this edge has been sharpened, should it have been?

How much lateral play should I introduce?
Sliding fit-2mm either side?

I realise the blade angle will have to be fine tuned, once I can get the blade in place.

Bod

 

[D_W]

2mm of wiggle on each side is more than enough once you get the angle of the iron and the cap dialed in. You may need to do some extensive work to the cap if there is much difference, but if it's all steel and mild steel, you have some leeway to mangle it around into the shape it needs to be. It will be your guide in the future for sharpening the angle.

You can sharpen the outside edge as you did with no consequence - it's not something you need to do for most work, though.

you may need to make a new wedge if the iron is markedly different than what was in the plane before. Once it's all dialed in, it should work like magic and with the cap set, you can take fat tearout-free shavings off and raise a panel or something similar as fast as your muscles will allow.