Anyone any experience of Axminster Cyclone Dust Extractors?

[myturn]

I have recently had two wood-dust related illnesses and am looking to upgrade my dust extraction system.
My current system (Axminster UB801 with fine filter cartridge dedicated to the lathe by a 2m 100mm hose and Big Mouth hood) is still spreading an awful lot of dust around and everything in my double-garage/workshop is covered in dust.
I have Microclene and JET air-cleaners running during and after any turning sessions and wear a JSP Powercap MOST of the time, but do remove it when I am not actively turning or sanding. This, I think, is a contributory cause to the illnesses I have had as there is obviously still a high concentration of dust lingering in the air even when the lathe is stopped. Nonetheless it shows that the dust extractor is not extracting much from the lathe at all.

Having read Bill Pentz's information on extraction I am convinced that a higher-capacity cyclone system is the way to go and there seems to be very little available in the UK other than doing a DIY build or buying one of very few add-on cyclone units.....but I still want more "suck" than my current extractor can provide.
The US seem far more switched on to the dangers posed to us "hobbyists".

I am rather limited in headroom or I would have considered one of the Bill Pentz designs and have a fairly flexible budget as I want to live long enough to be able to continue wood-turning once I retire!
I could locate my extractor outside the workshop if need be, but would rather not as this will reduce my car parking space. :?

So I am looking at the Axminster UB2200 cyclone and would be grateful if anyone has any views or experience of this unit, or any other practical advice on extraction SPECIFIC TO LATHE WORK.

Mick

 

[finneyb]

This doesn't answer your question, but may help you control dust.
A home made bowl sanding hood worth 3 mins of your time I suggest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZsVc7qVx7A
HTH

Brian

 

[Inspector]

In case you didn't know a cyclone can be mounted on an angle along a wall or under a roof, thus reducing the headroom needed in your shop.

Pete

 

[Robbo3]

My understanding of cyclone & Thein is that they are intermediate collectors that allow the shavings & hopefully the dust as well, to be separated into a container before it reaches the extractor thus allowing the extractor filters to work longer & more efficiently. If so, I don't see how such a system would be of any extra benefit to you.

Whatever system you choose, the dust needs to be extracted at source so that it doesn't get the chance to go anywhere other than where you want it to go.

 

[myturn]

This doesn't answer your question, but may help you control dust.
A home made bowl sanding hood worth 3 mins of your time I suggest

Something like that is worth considering so thanks for the suggestion Brian.

In case you didn't know a cyclone can be mounted on an angle along a wall or under a roof, thus reducing the headroom needed in your shop.
Pete

I've not come across any mention of cyclones at an angle before, do they work as efficiently without being impaired by the varying frictional resistance around the cone? Even so I don't have a wall to mount one and it would need to be mobile/freee-standing and I want as small a footprint as possible.

My understanding of cyclone & Thein is that they are intermediate collectors that allow the shavings & hopefully the dust as well, to be separated into a container before it reaches the extractor thus allowing the extractor filters to work longer & more efficiently. If so, I don't see how such a system would be of any extra benefit to you.

I am hoping that the benefits would be just as you say; to allow the extractor to work more efficiently (and hence pull more air) by not blocking up its filter. Also the dust should end up in the cyclone collector and not in the extractor filter where it can get blown back through the filter into the workshop.


Another option I am looking at is to try my existing extractor with an Oneida Super Dust Deputy to see whether that improves matters, before taking the plunge with a more expensive solution.

 

[beech1948]

Have a look here from a member

http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/

Al

 

[Inspector]

I've not come across any mention of cyclones at an angle before, do they work as efficiently without being impaired by the varying frictional resistance around the cone? Even so I don't have a wall to mount one and it would need to be mobile/freee-standing and I want as small a footprint as possible.

Yes a cyclone works exactly as when it is vertical. Tornados don't have to be vertical to munch through American towns. #-o The original founders of Clear Vue Cyclones played with one on angles right down to horizontal. Chunks of wood would spin and rattle around in the cyclone but the fine dust and shavings were still pushed out of the cone. So as long as there is enough angle for the heavier things collected to fall out the bottom they work.

My suggestion won't be of use to you in this case but maybe for the next guy.

Pete

 

[Robbo3]

Axminster Industrial Series UB-2200VECK Cyclone Extractor £1649.94
- http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-in ... -extractor

UB801F
- http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... -extractor

Where is all your ambient dust coming from? If you are losing suction then it sounds like your filters are getting clogged or there are leaks somewhere in the system. I can see no reason why your system shouldn't be working correctly provided the filter & bag are cleaned as needed.

Are you thinking that a change of extractor will save having to clean the filters or at least not having to clean them so often? Reading between the lines, perhaps you don't clean them as often as needed because of your respiratory problems.

IMO twin bag filters are for shavings not dust, despite what the manufacturers say. I note that Axminster catalogued your present model under chip extractors rather than the fine dust although they say that your model is suitable for dust collection. Initially they generally filter down to 0.5 micron for example & might even trap smaller particles as the filter material clogs but as they do so they become less & less efficient - which is what you seem to be finding.

So in answer to your initial question, the only information seems to be the reviews posted by users on the APTC web page.

When I was looking at home made cyclone & Thein systems I came across several youtube videos on cleaning pleated filters, eg
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiU0qadKXlw

At least you have a Powercap for protection when you empty the bag or change the filter. I have to wait for a windy day before I dare to empty mine outside.

HTH

 

[myturn]

Thanks for the response Robbo.

My UB801F is fitted with the optional fine cartridge filter which I clean before every use and often during use. It has a handle to turn paddles that scrape the dust off the inside into the bag at the bottom. Nonetheless I still see very little dust accumulating in the bag so it's either not getting into the extractor, or going in and being blown out again.

The Microclene air "cleaner" is mounted on the ceiling directly above the lathe and it has occurred to me that it may be blowing dust not picked up by the extractor around the workshop via its air outlet.
So I'm going to relocate that away from the lathe and also try not using it during turning to see if it is contributing to the spread of the dust.

Another thing I'm going to try is a pedestal fan blowing from an angle behind me towards the dust collector which itself is located behind the lathe and between me and the open side door (I always leave this open while working). This should encourage any dust to either go into the extractor or out of the door.

I am careful to sand in such a way as to direct the dust into the dust-hood but I think I'll expand the hood to enclose more of the workspace anyway.

Whatever solution I go for in the end will include a cyclone, whether it be a separate add-on to my existing extractor (such as a Dust Deputy) or built in to a larger extractor such as the UB2200 as a cyclone is the only way to ensure air-flow is not restricted by a clogged filter.


I suppose, like many others, I bought what I thought was a "proper" extractor and assumed it was the answer to everything but it was not until I had a problem and started to look into it that I found information such as that given by Bill Pentz. From what he says a bag-filter type extractor in the workshop is as bad or worse than no extractor at all :shock: I suppose I at least have the fine-filter cartridge that is supposed to retain more of the dust even though I seem to collect very little dust in the bag anyway.

If you don't have a Powercap or equivalent I can highly recommend one, in my view it is the single most important piece of equipment I have. I even use it when emptying dust-collections outside as the wind inevitably blows it all over me no matter where I stand.

regards, Mick

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Mick,
Sorry to hear of your dust related health problems - it's every turner's worst nightmare.

This is just a thought but the other way to overcome the clogged filter problem, whilst sticking with your 801 extractor, would be to replace the fine filter cartridge with, for want of a better description, an upturned bucket and a 115mm waste pipe through the bottom of it and routed to the outside world.

If you put a bend on the outside pointing down with a vent basket on it (think toilet waste stack) you can keep the rain out. When you get it right, almost all of the heavy debris will fall into the collection sack and all of the fine dust, which was destined for your filter, will depart through the wall - unfortunately along with all of the workshop heat but you can always put on another jumper, or six :wink:

...but you'll be amazed how much suck you can get without an filter whatsoever in the way.

HTH
Jon

 

[myturn]

This is just a thought but the other way to overcome the clogged filter problem, whilst sticking with your 801 extractor, would be to replace the fine filter cartridge with, for want of a better description, an upturned bucket and a 115mm waste pipe through the bottom of it and routed to the outside world.

Hi John,

Nice idea and will cost nothing to try so thanks for the suggestion.
As for heat loss I use an infra-red heater which heats solids but not the air so I can leave the door wide open even in the coldest weather and still not waste heat. It warms me up and anything solid in its way, such as the lathe.
So I can try sending my my dust out of the door....on to our cars #-o but that might encourage us to wash them a bit more often

I've decided not to do any more turning until my current chest infection has cleared up AND I have done something to radically improve my dust collection. Short-term loss for long-term gain I hope.

regards, Mick

 

[SteveF]

this has prompted me to re-think my small workshop
I have always worked outside and never had any dust extractors

i was not planning any dust extraction and was just going to clean up when finished doing whatever

i am now thinking the extra cost involved

Steve

 

[myturn]

this has prompted me to re-think my small workshop
I have always worked outside and never had any dust extractors

i was not planning any dust extraction and was just going to clean up when finished doing whatever

i am now thinking the extra cost involved

Steve

If you work outside then all out need is a respirator (i.e. Trend or JSP powered type) as the dust will dissipate into the air and the respirator will protect you from both impact and immediate dust.
If you work inside though, what price do you put on a pair of lungs?
Because that is what is at risk :!:
Mick

 

[SteveF]

sorry

i was talking about cost to health and not my pocket

Steve

 

[myturn]

sorry

i was talking about cost to health and not my pocket

Steve

Steve, glad you've got your priorities right.
We are on the same wavelength there as the cost to your health is incalculable and your pocket is irrelevant if you have no lungs!
Mick

 

[SteveF]

i have a family to worry about

i now need to research dust extractors
there seems to be a few threads, late night reading

Steve

 

[Robbo3]

Ok, now I see the cartridge replaces the upper bag,
- http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ck ... -cartridge

It seems that you are doing everything correctly so the problem must be the system itself. As suggested, see if the suction increases with the cartridge filter removed. If it does, at least you know where to concentrate further efforts.

My shop vac uses a cartridge filter but it doesn't take long to get a noticable reduction in suction especially with fine dust such as brick, plaster or concrete. I now use just the paper bags which seem to be adequate but of course other than visual, I have no means of testing whether they are any better or worse than the cartridge filter.

I have a small Cyclone Central kit ready to be tried out, to see if it relieves the load on the shop vac,
- http://www.cyclonecentral.co.uk/

I also have a 4" bathroom extractor fan, mounted in reverse, which I can attach to a face visor using flexible hose or just let it blow gently over the headstock to help push the dust towards the extraction inlet. The visor method is fine in summer but not really comfortable in the depths of winter. An idea that I once saw a long time ago & copied.

 

[Rlewisrlou66]

How about making your own?

http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-Cy ... Collector/

 

[beech1948]

I have recently had two wood-dust related illnesses and am looking to upgrade my dust extraction system.
My current system (Axminster UB801 with fine filter cartridge dedicated to the lathe by a 2m 100mm hose and Big Mouth hood) is still spreading an awful lot of dust around and everything in my double-garage/workshop is covered in dust.

Myturn,

This comment might be unpalatable but is worth thinking about.

You have a single stage DC. You need to make this a two stage DC. That is to add a Thien separator or similar before the DC so that the DC sucks through it. This will capture and separate out all of your chips and most of your fines.

Your existing DC may not be upto it. Your DC only produces 1000 cu/m per hour of airflow. Typically you will need at least 2000 cu/m of airflow or MORE. In practice what this means for your DC is you will need a bigger 14" or 16" impeller and a 2 to 3 HP motor with 4" ducts or better at 6".

If your current DC has only a 1hp motor you need to change it to a more powerful one with bigger impeller. A quick look at the Axi site shows no mention of motor size so I'm suspicious. Still go with the 2 stage system. Your Microclean and Jet air cleaners are fine.

Justification for this can be explained by FWW 233 article on converting from single stage to 2 stage DC.

Also bag type collectors are permeable by dust so act as dust spreaders it's built into the design. You need to be able to capture dust down to about 2.5 micron hense the suggestion of a pre-stage DC box like the Thein separator. The Thein box can be made by yoy in your workshop and is not expensive.


best regards and good health

Al

 

[philb88]

There's two new style cyclone extractors in the 2014 catalogue, not sure they're online yet.

Have the option to have HEPA style 0.3 micron filters. Very tempted for my own workshop!

http://www.axminster.co.uk/wood-working ... extractors?