£55 for a Metabo BST 12V Cordless Drill with 2 Batteries

[Mike.C]

I don't know if this is of interest to anyone in the market for a new drill/ driver http://www.xpressconstruction.com/produ ... 2&sku=4327

At £55 for 2 batteries and a 45 minute charger it seems alright and may do as a backup drill.

Cheers

Mike

 

[johnelliott]

This is a good deal. I ran one for a couple of years before the batteries packed up and it's a good, powerful machine. I think I might have one at this price

John

Hang on a minute, it's £55 PLUS VAT. Real price £64.62. Still good but not quite such a bargain!

It's time showing prices excluding VAT was made illegal. Even people who are VAT registered still have to pay it, albeit that they can claim it back later.

 

[engineer one]

slightly ot but must correct one important thing.

unless you are a charity, it is almost impossible to "claim back" vat.

as trader turning over about 60 k, and above, in the new gordon brown's
economy, what actually happens is that at every stage of the selling
process, the seller can offset some, but not all are applicable, of his
costs of vat against the vat he charges the next person in the line,
who can do the same up to the poor schmuck at the end,
the "customer" who cannot reclaim the vat.

it is a shame that this disinformation is still promoted about claiming back.
unless you export stuff, you almost never get a regular rebate from
the vat man, so all you are doing is "offsetting" the values.

however i do agree that selling without vat should be banned.

paul :wink:

 

[johnelliott]

I don't follow that at all, Paul. My understanding is that if a tool is going to be used in a business, then all the input vat can be reclaimed. If the tool is later sold then the registered person will need to charge VAT on it and remit that output VAT to the taxman. Are you saying this is wrong?

John

 

[engineer one]

i think you are missing the basic point john.

every quarter you sell a number of things as a tradesman,
either your time, or finished jobs. you have a total amount of vat
that you have charged for that work.

during that quarter you have bought materials, and maybe tools.
you were charged vat on most or all of those. if they are "applicable"
then you can offset your costs "input", against your sales "output",

and the bit in the middle is what you send to the vatman. :twisted:

later in its life you may sell a second hand machine, and technically
someof that price should include vat,but not sure how many people
actually charge it on individual machines, cause you generally sell
more than one thing at a time.

hopefully this has not muddied the water's any more, but
the fact is you only offset vat, you never actually reclaim it.
very clever management bulls**t from the civil service
mandarins.

paul :wink:

 

[johnelliott]

i think you are missing the basic point john.

I'm unaware of having missed anything. Why not try answering my question

My understanding is that if a tool is going to be used in a business, then all the input vat can be reclaimed. If the tool is later sold then the registered person will need to charge VAT on it and remit that output VAT to the taxman. Are you saying this is wrong?

I think it would be better to simply answer the question above, because at the moment your argument is very difficult to follow

If it makes it any easier for you, VAT is a tax on the value that has been added to the item in question. If I purchase a drill and use it rather than sell it, I haven't added any value to it. If on the other hand I purchase an item and then sell it for more than I purchased it for (value added) then I will charge VAT on the sale price (output VAT) and reclaim the input VAT. In effect, therefore, I will pay the VAT man the VAT which is on the value trhat I added to the item. (that's why they call it Value Added Tax)

John

 

[engineer one]

john i have answered your question,but you are thinking about
single items, and i am talking about running a business.

if you run a vat registered business, then not all the items you
buy with vat on them are capable of being offset against you sales
or output vat.

you are right it is called value added tax, but since i run some complex
sets of books for clients, i know that not all items are can be "offset".

simple, if you buy ten items that are offsettable, for 10000 in total, the vat is 1750.

if you sell twelve items in the same period for 20000, the
vat is 3500.

the vat you send to customs and excise is 1750. how is that reclaimed???

that is the answer. what more does it take???

paul :wink:

 

[engineer one]

follow up, you have paid the vat on the first 10000,
and you pay the difference between the 10000 vat and the 20000
vat to the customs and excise, so how do you reclaim it?????

the essence of vat is that each trader does not profit from the
uplift,only the revenue. if you deduct the vat paid and the vat remitted you should get your nett turnover.

nowhere in there is there a reclaim.

paul :wink:

 

[johnelliott]

Paul, you are working on some kind of internal logic that isn't quite applying itself to the question in hand. The question is (please read it carefully)- " My understanding is that if a tool is going to be used in a business, then all the input vat can be reclaimed. If the tool is later sold then the registered person will need to charge VAT on it and remit that output VAT to the taxman. Are you saying this is wrong? "

Since you don't want to answer the question that I posed, I will answer it for you-

This drill is a single item. It is going to be used in the business. It is a tool. The business does not buy and sell tools, it uses them. If the tool is ever sold (which is unlikely) then it will be sold for less than was paid for it. If a person was to be registered for VAT and buy a tool to use in the business, then they most definitely can reclaim the VAT (special rules applies to cars, but not to cordless drills)

John

 

[engineer one]

obviously you and i talk a different version of the english language john.

how exactly do you think you can reclaim the vat on a single item??

firstly you must turnover, ie sell more than 15k of goods per quarter
to need to be registered for vat. if you are not registered, you certainly
can't get the vat back.

my vat forms have 9 boxes, the first 5 are the important ones, and i accept that the word reclaimed is used in box 5. however, unless you
export goods, it is unlikely, that if you are to make a profit, you will
be buying more goods than you sell. ergo you will pay money to the
vat man/customs and excise, not claim it back.

how therefore can you claim back the money on your single drill,
and get an actual payment from the vat man?

there are no boxes on the vat form to allow you to get money back on
individual items. hence my answer both stands and is correct for your
statement.

think we are getting to the stage where insults may flow so i guess we ought to step back, and you should consider re-reading what i have
written.
paul :wink:

 

[johnelliott]

Paul, you are obviously determined to win this argument that you have created. I'm in a magnanimous mood today and I'm going to let you have this one.

John

 

[Mike.C]

Wow, now I know what is like to be abused Call the police because I have just been hijacked. :wink:

Cheers

Mike

 

[paulm]

John, you are absolutely right in your reasoning throughout !

I think the confusion is that Paul is not seeing an actual physical repayment or reclaim from the VAT man. However, what is being missed is that there is an effective reclaim nonetheless in the form of not having to pay over to the VAT man the full output VAT on sales. In deducting the input VAT first and remitting the reduced net amount you are effectively reclaiming the input VAT even if you end up writing out a cheque to pay something over.

Hope this helps and doesn't re-inflame the discussion ! :shock:

Rgds, Paul.

 

[johnelliott]

I think the confusion is that Paul is not seeing an actual physical repayment or reclaim from the VAT man. However, what is being missed is that there is an effective reclaim nonetheless in the form of not having to pay over to the VAT man the full output VAT on sales. In deducting the input VAT first and remitting the reduced net amount you are effectively reclaiming the input VAT even if you end up writing out a cheque to pay something over.

I think that's a very good explanation.

To return to the original topic, I would like to reccomend this drill to anyone who fancies it, I was very happy with the work I got out of mine over a 2 year period and I paid about £100 for it. I never bothered with the pulse thingy which seems a bit of a gimmick

John