Possible Hand Tool Led Show/Exhibition Next Year

[Chris Knight]

Somewhat OT.

I think the internet is killing these shows. People just go to look at stuff look then order it from the cheapest online supplier. I believe that shows need to be re-formatted around stuff you can't easily get (yet) on the internet - namely high quality demos of techniques with the opportunity for Q&A. For this I would expect to pay in future and personally a £100 fee for a ticket that gave me say- a two day attendance possibility, would be a reasonable sort of figure.

 

[Philly]

Hmm......interesting! I agree Chris-the 'Net is turning a lot of things on their head. Shows need to make money (hence no Axminster this year :? ) or they won't be held. It's as easy as that.
Chris' idea of paying more but getting quality education is a good one-I'd pay a lot of money for a day of Rob Cosman, David Cosman, etc. AND spend a small fortune on those must have esotoric tools on the way out (as anyone who has seen Rob C will atest :lol: )
Food for thought....
Philly

 

[Alf]

David Cosman

Lesser known brother? :wink:

I think the show you want is probably Westonbirt, Phil. Certainly the direction Mike Hancock seems to be taking his bit of it.

Cheers, Alf

 

[CHJ]

...snip..For this I would expect to pay in future and personally a £100 fee for a ticket that gave me say- a two day attendance possibility, would be a reasonable sort of figure.

Chris,
I think that sort of scenario and attendance cost would rule most of DIY and the small craft fraternity out of the frame. I know there are many in the professional world who might think this no bad thing but this is where the bulk of the spare cash is coming from.

It's the very reason many of the seminars are folding in this country, Cost.

A days break from production, with a bit of light hearted window shopping and the chance to research the odd equipment or material purchase is one thing, but to make the visitor pay the equivalent of another days earnings for the privilege is in my opinion a non starter.

Two day attendance adds at least £70-90 in accommodation fees for most people or a very near equivalent in fuel fees.

When the space costs were more manageable for the trade stands such things a childrens corners etc. provided by the traders were in evidence for families, meaning families with joint/similar interests could at least both afford and get themselves and the young minds with them exposure to current trends.

Alf has a point re: venues such as Westonbirt, I don't know what the pitch prices are (but as a member I can find out) It would certainly take out at least one tier of profit taking from the attendance fees.

 

[Chris Knight]

Chas,
I know that the cost would put a lot of people off but frankly, I don't think they are doing their sums very well. When you add up the cost of ignorance and misinformation that soon hits the pockets of those folk who rely on lowest cost and a salesman's spiel to make their decisions for them, then I think it is clearly better economics to pay a bit for high quality info one can use.

I think education is key to so much but as a society we don't recognise the trade-offs we make. Going really OT here ( Maybe another Mod will relocate my post!) If, for example, no parents wanted to send their kids anywhere except their nearest school - because it was so good; imagine the savings made in time lost due to traffic congestion, the reduction in environmental pollution and so forth. I am sure it outweighs the cost of making schools that good.

Back to WW. Almost any £100 spent on education (books, course etc) at the start of a woodworker's career will be saved many-fold in a few years by better informed purchasing decisions, by saving time other wise lost to mistakes etc etc.

 

[CHJ]

...snip...Back to WW. Almost any £100 spent on education (books, course etc) at the start of a woodworker's career will be saved many-fold in a few years by better informed purchasing decisions, by saving time other wise lost to mistakes etc etc.

You make valid points Chris, but as regards the above, if you do not get the 15-16 year olds in the door in the first place, then there ain't going to be any woodworkers to have a career.

How many parents faced with teenagers costs can fork out an additional £50-100 just to find out if something clicks with them?


Back to subject of thread, despite being disappointed at the last show I am intending to go just on the off-chance that the venue costs may have attracted more patronage.

 

[Philly]

David Cosman

Lesser known brother? :wink:
Cheers, Alf

Oops :lol: Sorry, meant David CHARLESWORTH
Told you the Canadian was persuasive....
Philly

 

[CHJ]

Senior moment there Philly :?:

Better take a look at the Rogues Gallery a little more often, the ensuing hilarity may stimulate the little grey cells. :lol:

 

[Philly]

He, he :lol: Just had another look at Rogues Gallery. You deserve a prize for looking after that handsome lot :lol:
Philly

 

[Mike Hancock]

As a veteran of about 150 UK shows I can be a real bore on this subject but don't worry I'll spare you!

Certainly there is a need for something fresh and interesting to liven things up and I have been working on something for next year (or possibly spring 2008). I have been "experimenting" with Westonbirt and how far that venue can accommodate a show within a show i.e a hand tool, demonstration led show that educates, motivates and inspires people to take an active interest in woodworking. So last year, I had Rob Cosman, Chris Pye & John Lloyd all doing masterclasses throughout the show and all 3 were available throughout the day in the main marquee along with guys demonstrating Japanese hand tool use, bowmaking, relief carving, caricature carving, Clifton planes, sharpening & finishing, plus 2 excellent woodturners.

Plans are in place to improve on the show for 2007 now that I have proved to the organisers that it pulls a new audience in. (I have even suggested to some members that space is there for the ukworkshop forum to promote themselves to the wider woodworking public). All my Westonbirt demonstrators were positive about returning next year and I already have a respected windsor chairmaker also demonstrating next year as well as a musical instrument maker - I genuinely believe that Westonbirt can offer something quite unique and I am working with the organisers to make it a better attraction for 2007. Contrast this approach to what everybody else is doing i.e dumbing down!.

Anyway that is Westonbirt - it has its limitations because it is a marquee show (e.g difficult to showcase furniture etc) but there are some nice surprises being lined up for you people in 2007 and it would be great to have some feedback as to how you think it can be improved.

:?: Here's a question for you - how many of you would support a new show based in the east of England within 45 mins of the M25 - who would you like to see there how much would you pay for their seminars - how much would you pay to get in and have decent demonstrators i.e a Classic Hand Tools Westonbirt approach without all the peripheral craft stalls and chain saw carvers but with furniture being showcased.

When - this time next year?

Where - its a secret for the moment.

I have the venue but am honest enough to say that I am sitting on the fence by way of committing myself. Partly because I think people are possibly too entrenched in their habits and want to do the same old thing, partly the financial risk, the time and also asking myself "why bother". The last point is easiest for me to answer because I am bloody minded enough to believe that I can put on a really good show that would educate, motivate and inspire woodworkers.

So waht do you think? I'm still on the fence!

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds very interesting Mike. I hope the 45 minutes from the M25 is in a northerly direction?

In feel that a lot of these shows are missed by many people because they are situated too far south - I live in the midlands and Axminster etc. are just too far to drive to save £5 on a plane or saw.

Quality demos with discounted tools that is accessible to more people from the north and midlands would be great and I'd be happy to pay for the experience if it were sorted properly

 

[Paul Chapman]

a hand tool, demonstration led show that educates, motivates and inspires people

Hi Mike,

What a breath of fresh air This is exactly the sort of event that would appeal to me. Not sure what to say about how much I would be prepared to pay - being a pensioner now money is not limitless. Let's say £50 to include entrance and demos - but I'm really picking a figure out of the air. My main point is that what you are proposing is the very thing that is missing from most shows and what often makes them so disappointing. Hope your ideas bear fruit :wink:

Paul

 

[Philly]

Hi Mike
Great to see you on the forum!
Count me in-and £50 sounds like a starting point. The lower the cost the more bums on seats.
Thanks for the offer of space at the show-we are still at the "early discussion stage".
Cheers
Philly

 

[Roger]

how much would you pay to get in and have decent demonstrators i.e. a Classic Hand Tools Westonbirt approach without all the peripheral craft stalls and chain saw carvers but with furniture being showcased

For that type of top class show, I'd say around £50 - £75 sounds reasonable, but I'd expect a lot (if not all) the demonstrations to be included. The problem as people are always pointing out is the distance to travel. Even Harrogate for 2 days is an overnight for me and I'm in the North!

Anything 45 minutes ‘up the map’ from the M25 however is fine for that quality of program. Even if it is an overnight, it would be worth it. I rely on the web for orders as it is impractical for me to travel to a lot of the major suppliers. Axminster might as well be on the dark side of the moon :shock:

There is life outside the M25 but putting on a good show within striking distance of more than half the country doesn’t seem to occur to a lot of events companies !

If you manage to pull this one off however, I’ll be the first to book (and the hotel :roll

 

[Chris Knight]

Mike,

Count me in for whatever you are doing!

I'd like to see (not just for me) but as a kind of manifestation of the things I have tried to pass on to a few folk who have spent time with me in my workshop and which they found valuable - things from the list below. I am still prepared for £100 for two days or £75 for one - if the lecturers and demonstrators are of Rob Cosman's class and one can get close to the demo with time for proper Q&A.

1. Design issues around simple seeming pieces of furniture, that make the difference between great and just OK.
2. Veneering techniques
3. Hand tool preparation/fettling (eg saw sharpening, plane flattening etc.)
4. Tablesaw techniques
5. Routing - basic, intermediate and advanced
6. Making and modifying handtools
7. Metalwork for the woodworker (basic heat treatment, tool shaping etc)

I could add more but you get the picture.

At the price I am giving, I expect - as a max - the selling that RC does for LN but also, pretty unequivocal responses to the question - is Brand X OK for this operation/activity?

In other words I am paying for wisdom not a marketing effort.

 

[CHJ]

Maybe a hybrid show with 2 tier entry - one to the public show and the other a show pass with access to the seminars. That way you get access to tools and wisdom. Mike

I like the sound of that idea, it might just encourage the interested or curious to tag along with the dedicated member for a day out, anything that may result in 'wider audience' exposure to the field can only be of benefit.

Preview day for the dedicated seminar goer? who can then concentrate on the lectures during following days with selected point of contacts sorted.

Anyway that is Westonbirt - it has its limitations because it is a marquee show (e.g difficult to showcase furniture etc) but there are some nice surprises being lined up for you people in 2007 and it would be great to have some feedback as to how you think it can be improved.

Mike

Mike, any chance you could get the FOWA at Westonbirt to allocate the Oak Hall as a safe (rain-proof) place for furniture display?

I know its not all that big but it would be big enough for eight or so exhibitors to showcase their wares.

Edited to include lost submission from original thread.

 

[Mike Hancock]

Anyway that is Westonbirt - it has its limitations because it is a marquee show (e.g difficult to showcase furniture etc) but there are some nice surprises being lined up for you people in 2007 and it would be great to have some feedback as to how you think it can be improved.

Mike

Mike, any chance you could get the FOWA at Westonbirt to allocate the Oak Hall as a safe (rain-proof) place for furniture display?

I know its not all that big but it would be big enough for eight or so exhibitors to showcase their wares.

I have booked the Oak Hall for 2008 as that is the soonest i could get it - in fact I thought I had it but alas no. It is a lovely building and I can make good use of it. Keep the suggestions coming please.

 

[Mike Hancock]

Mike,

Count me in for whatever you are doing!

I'd like to see (not just for me) but as a kind of manifestation of the things I have tried to pass on to a few folk who have spent time with me in my workshop and which they found valuable - things from the list below. I am still prepared for £100 for two days or £75 for one - if the lecturers and demonstrators are of Rob Cosman's class and one can get close to the demo with time for proper Q&A.

1. Design issues around simple seeming pieces of furniture, that make the difference between great and just OK.
2. Veneering techniques
3. Hand tool preparation/fettling (eg saw sharpening, plane flattening etc.)
4. Tablesaw techniques
5. Routing - basic, intermediate and advanced
6. Making and modifying handtools
7. Metalwork for the woodworker (basic heat treatment, tool shaping etc)

I could add more but you get the picture.

At the price I am giving, I expect - as a max - the selling that RC does for LN but also, pretty unequivocal responses to the question - is Brand X OK for this operation/activity?

In other words I am paying for wisdom not a marketing effort.

Yes, wisdom is what we all need. In fact I suspect it would be a mix of both as some people come inextricably linked to a product (like Rob C. I guess) but I have a few guys who may counter balance that.

Interestingly the Carpenters Fellowship have an annual gathering which is based round a lecture/seminar programme and they charge a hefty sum for "delegates" - I didn't hear them moaning about the money they paid as they got value for money and still had time to spend money on tools.
Maybe a hybrid show with 2 tier entry - one to the public show and the other a show pass with access to the seminars. That way you get access to tools and wisdom. Mike

 

[Mike Hancock]

Sounds very interesting Mike. I hope the 45 minutes from the M25 is in a northerly direction?

In feel that a lot of these shows are missed by many people because they are situated too far south - I live in the midlands and Axminster etc. are just too far to drive to save £5 on a plane or saw.

Quality demos with discounted tools that is accessible to more people from the north and midlands would be great and I'd be happy to pay for the experience if it were sorted properly

Actually it is between the A12 and M11 area. So strictly speaking it is north eastish. Regards Mike

 

[Mike Hancock]

Maybe a hybrid show with 2 tier entry - one to the public show and the other a show pass with access to the seminars. That way you get access to tools and wisdom. Mike

I like the sound of that idea, it might just encourage the interested or curious to tag along with the dedicated member for a day out, anything that may result in 'wider audience' exposure to the field can only be of benefit.

Preview day for the dedicated seminar goer? who can then concentrate on the lectures during following days with selected point of contacts sorted.

Well I was thinking of a 2 day sat/sun show - is this the correct assumption to make? Having the preview day may not work econimically I fear and I would be pretty hesitant to stretch the show to 3 days in the first year. Still I am not discounting anything at this stage.