Possible Hand Tool Led Show/Exhibition Next Year

[DaveL]

Actually it is between the A12 and M11 area. So strictly speaking it is north eastish.

This gets better and better, I just happen to live between the A12 and the M11. \/

So what time of the year are you looking at Mike?

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Tony

Actually it is between the A12 and M11 area. So strictly speaking it is north eastish. Regards Mike

IIRC, depending how far up the A12 we're talking, that's probably a two and a half hour drive from Nottingham.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Mike Hancock]

Actually it is between the A12 and M11 area. So strictly speaking it is north eastish.

This gets better and better, I just happen to live between the A12 and the M11. \/

So what time of the year are you looking at Mike?

:idea: Early April (but unlikley as this is too soon for 2007 for me) - 2nd weekend in June or first/second week in October.

 

[Ian Dalziel]

, depending how far up the A12 we're talking, that's probably a two and a half hour drive from Nottingham.

nearer 6 from ecosse but worth the effort if the standard is there. and i'm home for it....love learning new things and seeing tricks that can make or break a project.

Like Chris suggestions.....

I

 

[Anonymous]

Just to add to the other side...

50 quid? Do you think I'm made of money? How many/few people would you really get through the gates for 50 quid per head?

If I come to westonbirt (and I plan to next year) then I have to bring the wife and baby. By the time I've bought lunch and a few goodies (I can never resist) it works out to be quite an expensive day.

As for the shows I always thought it was a form of marketing for the companies. No, you don't make any money at the show. Yes, you do make money later on because you marketed your products well. Most companies I have worked for have to invest in marketing and the shows are just one part of it.

Dave

 

[CHJ]

Just to add to the other side...

50 quid? Do you think I'm made of money? How many/few people would you really get through the gates for 50 quid per head?

If I come to westonbirt (and I plan to next year) then I have to bring the wife and baby. By the time I've bought lunch and a few goodies (I can never resist) it works out to be quite an expensive day.

As for the shows I always thought it was a form of marketing for the companies. No, you don't make any money at the show. Yes, you do make money later on because you marketed your products well. Most companies I have worked for have to invest in marketing and the shows are just one part of it.

Dave

Dave, as one of the silver haired (well some anyway) brigade, I too am not able to contemplate those sort of prices, and although I would find seminar events enlightening can't justify the entry costs, I'm just in woodworking for the occupational, hobby enjoyment side of things. However if a two tiered system of pricing can be sorted to make shows more viable so well and good.

I believe most companies as you say historically made a loss on show costs but were able to justify them in the past as part of the advertising budget and could measure the benefits on post show sales.

I get the impression that the major problem facing exhibitors is that the cost effectiveness of paying for display space at todays prices, two or three day accommodation etc. is no longer becoming viable as a bussiness expense justifiable to the accountants or banks. A bit of a catch 22 situation as 'no show' means less exposure, sales etc.

 

[ByronBlack]

I think a tiered approach is a good idea, say £15 for regular entry and wander round the stalls etc.. and £40 - 50 for those who wish to attend the seminars.

The other idea which I think would be good woud be to get non-commercially tied exhibitors, for instance maybe some forum members from here could do a short seminer on a particular technique.

I would definitly be interested as i've yet to go to a show, but it's not just the commerical aspect that would interest me, it would be the social aspect, the seminer and interaction with the luminaries of the field.

The other idea I have which is linked to my own predicament, and that is to have employers or course tutors holding a kind of recruitment meet, talking about the various aspect of the trade, how to gain entry, ability to talk to employers and tutors..

 

[Gill]

It seems that the retailers have been slow to pick up on the changing requirements of people who attend woodworking shows. If not enough goods are being sold to justify the shows, it's likely that the people attending aren't looking to buy goods. Ten years ago the only way you could reliably test a tool or machine was to attend a show and use it yourself. Nowadays it's much easier to pick someone's brains on the internet and then place your order online. Displaying at a show can't have much benefit for retailers unless they're keen to get rid of stock and are prepared to offer substantial discounts. The retailers and the visitors no longer have the same objectives when they attend woodworking shows and it's not surprising that they're both coming away dissatisfied.

That said, if the cost of a ticket to a show which is heavy on seminars and tuition is going to cost upwards of £50 per head, people will be discouraged. It's an awful lot for a day out, especially if you've got a family to think of. I certainly wouldn't be interested at that price.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the days of the big shows are over. Instead, we're more likely to encounter enthusiast gatherings such as the recent Big Bash or American-style picnics. I can also envisage publishers holding Open Days for magazine subscribers to attend and talk to feature contributors who might be persuaded to hold seminars.

Gill

 

[Roger]

I'd say a two tiered is an ideal way to go for this type of show. The technical Automotive and Software shows (particularly in North America) are mainly based on this premise.

Press get in free; Public pay a small fee and those who want one or more of the in-depth seminars get a choice of all or some, depending on the ticket price level. It would be a refreshing and inovative idea for a top class Woodworking event.

 

[Mike Hancock]

I'd say a two tiered is an ideal way to go for this type of show. The technical Automotive and Software shows (particularly in North America) are mainly based on this premise.

Press get in free; Public pay a small fee and those who want one or more of the in-depth seminars get a choice of all or some, depending on the ticket price level. It would be a refreshing and inovative idea for a top class Woodworking event.

Hello - yes 50 quid is a lot of money but of course it depends on what you get. Its a ticket to a rock concert, or west end show, Ipswich v Norwich (the best seats - but still a complete waste of money anyway). It is interesting for me to try and gauge the likely interest - a 2 two tiered show with 2 prices seems a good idea - no-one has commented whether sat/sunday is the best option (as opposed to fri/sat).

It would be impossible to keep everyone satisfied and some people will place value on certain seminars/presentations/speakers and not others.

The answer to that is that a) don't come b) lobby me to bring in new people for the following year.

There is a serious side to this question - it isn't just for fun - if you had 5 from the following would you think £50 - £75 was worth it... Konrad Sauer, Rob Cosman, Thomas Lie Nielsen, Garrett Hack, Terry Gordon, Chris Schwarz, Colen Clenton, Eddie Sirotich (Adria Saws) , Robin Lee, David Charlesworth, John Lloyd, James Mursell, Michael Huntley, Ron Hock... would that start to grab your attention?

That is without the woodcarving & woodturning demonstrators and the various tools that would populate the main show arena.

As it has been correctly pointed out - retailers such as me use the shows as a marketing exercise. With an exercise as big as this my main risk is that I must wipe my feet with the show costs and break even (yet to happen with me, not even at Westonbirt) whilst attracting more woodworkers to do their future shopping with me.

One last question for now - how many people should a seminar hold - 20, 50, 100, 200? The Masterclasses at Westonbirt could hold 50 but that was in a tent. They would be have an audio visual technician in attendance so close ups can be relayed to Tv screens etc so there are no "best seats"...

Oh well, more food for thought (by the way I haven't spoken to all of the above about this specifically - but they would appear on my first hit list as likely candidates - open to suggestions!)

 

[ByronBlack]

Another option regarding the pricing - now this idea may be too hard to administrate, but you could charge a fee per seminer rather than a catch all price.

For instance, the show could be £15 -£20 to get in, then £5 per seminar this way each person would only pay for the people they want to see..

It works in an ideal world, but whether it would work practically is a different thing altogether.

With regards the sat/sun - that gets my vote, i'd imagine most poeple on the forum work to mon-fri rota so that would allow most people not to take a day off work on the firday if they wish to go on both days.

 

[Mike Hancock]

Another option regarding the pricing - now this idea may be too hard to administrate, but you could charge a fee per seminer rather than a catch all price.

For instance, the show could be £15 -£20 to get in, then £5 per seminar this way each person would only pay for the people they want to see..

It works in an ideal world, but whether it would work practically is a different thing altogether.

With regards the sat/sun - that gets my vote, i'd imagine most poeple on the forum work to mon-fri rota so that would allow most people not to take a day off work on the firday if they wish to go on both days.

I am afraid that wouldn't work for me as it is far to difficult to administrate - one ticket gets you everything - the trick is make the "everything" very good

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mike,

When I originally picked a price of £50 out of the air, I had in mind that the organiser would have to pay the people who are doing the demonstrations and seminars to travel to the event, have accommodation, etc as well as their time, and that will cost quite a bit. Also, some will probably come from overseas, and they are not going to do that out of their own pocket unless, perhaps, they were planning to be here anyway.

From the attendees point of view, some will just want to look at and buy tools, so they won't want to pay £50. Those who do want to attend the demos and seminars will only want to attend those of interest to them.

Taking all these things into account, plus the people who want to attend with the family for a day out, I think the right formula would be pick-and mix. Say £10 for entrance and £10 for each demo or seminar. That way the cost would be a minimum of £10 up to a maximum of £50 or £60.

As to the "right" numbers for the demos and seminars, that will depend partly on the effectiveness of the AV set-up but also I think people want to have the opportunity to pick the brains of the people giving the demos and seminars, so that would suggest not making them too big.

Hope this helps :wink:

Paul

 

[Roger]

Friday / Saturday or Saturday / Sunday ……… doesn’t matter to me, but for most of the public and working stiffs with or w/o families, probably Saturday / Sunday would be best.

I can see that picking and choosing Seminars would be a nightmare to administer and then control on the day. The most that could be done that way, would be perhaps a tiered system with access and main floor per day or both days, plus maybe a ‘Silver’ level for Saturday seminars and then a ‘Gold’ for everything plus strawberries’ and cream :lol:

As to numbers ….. I would guess that 20 would be ideal with an absolute maximum of 30. That of course would create a lot of ticket buying frenzy I would say unless you had repeats of Seminars throughout the weekend. If there was only one on a particular topic – only the first 30 to grab would get in, which negates any ‘Gold’ ticket covering everything :shock:

A bit of a Catch 22 really for small number Seminars

I have to say that with the names you just dropped, £50 seems remarkably cheap!

 

[Chris Knight]

Mike,
Those names certainly get my attention! The only problem is that if they are as generous with their time as Rob Cosman was at Westonbirt, we'll need a week!

 

[Ian Dalziel]

Mike...they too get my attention......when you have to travel 400 miles and do an overnight the admission price pales into insignifigance.
As a matter of interest.....i paid £150 for 2 concert tickets for my kids to see robbie williams....i regularly go to the cinema min £50 after pop and popcorn.
I also like the theatre....again a meal before...tickets and taxi home not much short of a few hundred.

for all these guys together then its a worthwhile invetment if i learn something...

just my tuppence

Ian

 

[Scrit]

I think I'm with Byron in terms of approach and pricing. £50 is way too high for an unknown quantity - some of you guys are obviously overpaid! Personally I'd be happier with an entry fee plus a fee per seminar basis. Some of the subjects suggested (for example wood machining) should be dealt with by Further Education Colleges, however, knowing how patchy that can be naybe it's not such a good idea after all. Would people really pay to sit through a seminar on "safe table saw usage" or "introduction to the spindle moulder", though?

Whaty I'm beginning to wonder, with the diverse skills we have here, is whether or not the membership should try to organise their own show.

Scrit

 

[DarrenW]

Some views from a complete amateur. I too agree with the split pricing. Say £10-15 entry and same again for each demo.

There's only so much you can read, seeing someone actually do the task helps so much more.

I can remember watching a guy (appologies for not remembering his name) at the Axminster show last year doing a very quick sharpening/planning/dovetail demo near the LN stand. This was alot more use than the books I had read before hand. I also find the DC DVD's very usefull.

So with no access to a teacher any chance to see more demos would be ideal.... as long as theres seating . But I'd prefer to pick and choose which ones I would be interested in.

Cheers

Darren

 

[wizer]

At the begining of this thread I got caught up in the attraction of all those skilled instructional demonstrations. But when I got to thinking I came up with the following.

£50 (even £30) is a lot of money. I think your turn out will be much much less than the likes of the Axminster shows. I think the big shows attract, probably as much as 50%, DIY'rs. People who have no intention of getting into 'serious' woodwork. The Tommy Walsh Brigade if you like. As others have said, the location is always a problem. I live 'in the south' and even Axminster would be a bit far.

I know that commercially it does't make money. But events like Philly's big bash are far more likely to attract me. Somewhere I can see 'real' skilled woodworkers, giving demo's. Somwhere where the attendance is small enough to be able to have a chat with the demonstrator without having a rushed answer. Surely one of these 'super star woodworkers' could be convinced to attend a smaller community based gathering. Even if the group had to chip in and pay for the pleasure. Both this and 1-2-1 workshop time IMHO is much more valuable than a show that is so crowded you can barely hear and just about see without someone getting in the way. I might as well be at home watching WW on the TV.

I'm not saying WW shows should be scrapped alltogther. There needs to be the oppurtunity to physically see a tool before buying and to compare tools side by side. Also it is useful to pick the brains of a tool maker.

I'm sorry to sound negative and I hope you can prove me wrong. On the face of it you sound like you have some good ideas and certainly the right attitude to make it all happen.

Good Luck.

 

[BrianD]

I have been following this discourse and find it very interesting. It seems that there are two primary points of view being:

At a show many "viewers" browse and then go out and buy on the 'Net at a cheaper price so the percieved cost/benefit is not present for the parties on display. Although the cost of the show for the display company is percieved as a marketing cost.

On the other hand the consumer/viewer wants to be somewhat educted in respect of the displays/techniques/tools for free(?) - this is somewhat unrealistic if the presentation is by top craftsman and in that case perhaps a fee shouldbe charge otherwise Joe Bloggs is going to present at a nominal cost to the displaying/presenting company.

The fair balance between the two agendas need to be struck and perhaps the acknowledgement of this balance is what is not really being addressed in the various show's proposals/proposition? Thus we have angst on both sides.

I have been going to the DM Tools show in the South East (fortunately very near where I reside) and what a show. They do not have top names but do have many demos over the long weekend and from what I have personally seen the sales go through the roof! My perception is that the show is specifically target at the DIYer/hobbist and yes they hav a wide enough range on display bordering onto light trade. However. my perception is they target a specific market and an not attemoting to be one size fits all (this will not work).

This show grows every year and appears very successful to me - I plan to attend this year again. The prices are discounted and competitive to the 'Net.

My point is that there a shows for different audiences and the show companies need to strike the balance between themselves and the audience in every case - it is not a single recipe.

I think DM Tools have got it right thus their show goes from strength to strength. Perhaps other vendors need to examine their business model for the show and improve their own offerings.

BTW I am not affliated to DM Tools in any way but do really enjoy their shows.

My 1p for what it is not worth. :wink:

Cheers.