you'll never guess why my early record 8 is hard adjusting

[D_W]

I've had this plane for a while, it wasn't that flat when I got it and I've created some work for myself by not finishing a flattening job and then not remembering that I sort of left it half done.

But what has always perplexed me is just how hard it is to get the thing to move forward on adjustment but it goes back fine...

you ready?.....wait for it..

...the lever cap is too long. The end of the lever cap goes over the stock cap iron and it's literally like putting your fingers over a curve and holding it back.

This is an interesting problem because the cheap mex stanley has a cap iron that's too short and it won't hold the cap down properly.

I figured this out only because I'm prepping the record 8 to sell it and at least doing a decent job of flattening it so it's usable, and I noticed just how far over the cap iron hump the lever cap goes.

Bizarre!!!!

Also not really fixable for me, though I could make a different type of cap for it (one could always buy one of the modern flat ones, too).

This issue with adjustability is what triggered me to bid on later stanley 8s until I got a regular auction "win" (ebay's really the winner in these things these days, but whatever).

Can't believe it. I waxed the face of the frog and did all kinds of nonsense to no avail. No wonder.

 

[Dee J]

Wonder whether it's the lever cap directly or maybe there's a mix up with frog or frog-body machining. Maybe a shim under the frog would lift the lever cap position relative to the cap iron?

 

[D_W]

I think the easiest thing to do to avoid the problem is just put the lever cap on without pushing it toward the mouth the whole way, if that makes sense.

As in, not have the retaining screw all the way at the top of the keyhole. I'll take a picture later.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

I think the easiest thing to do to avoid the problem is just put the lever cap on without pushing it toward the mouth the whole way, if that makes sense.

As in, not have the retaining screw all the way at the top of the keyhole. I'll take a picture later.

How about measuring some caps and checking frogs also and has or look like someones machined base of fog or some other shenanigans?
does it have frog etc off a say 6.
Also how far down the iron have to set Breaker? as if have more iron exposed on end will mean breakers further up into cap area.

 

[D_W]

full size perfect fitting frog, unmodified. Goes just about to the edges within a tiny fraction of an inch and contact is good.

I think it's just an error on record's part. Notice in the first picture just how far down the lever cap goes.

In the second picture, you can see the lip that I'm talking about - that seems to get a strong grip on the cap iron, and then in the third, what I mentioned as a quick fix, but more practical would be to install a temporary spacer of some sort with easily reversed glue (like CA) between the screw and lever cap to preserve that little gap.

That is a really hokey fix, and without the spacer, the lever cap can be pulled by the advancing iron.

My "new" stanley 8 that was to arrive today just showed ship status of "missent", which means it got sent to the wrong place somewhere. So this thing may still have some life if it actually gets lost. Otherwise, I'm giving it a mostly proper flattening and will take the house 1084 iron out and put the original back in - which itself was almost unused. It was the nearly unused status that sold me on it.

I don't know enough about record planes to know if record made different lever caps over time.

The cap is set close to the edge here. I rarely work with the cap iron set completely off. The plane itself is fine other than having pretty significant flatness issues at the start and the long lever cap - the very hard adjusting to depth is something I can't tolerate. I'm not sure I've seen this before, but I've gotten into the stupid mode lately of trying to figure everything out all the time instead of just casting off the ones that don't work as well and keeping the others.

 

[raffo]

I have a Woden smoother plane, which I think was related to Record at some point, with the lever cap fitting low on the chipbreaker like in your fist picture.
I'll take pictures later.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

You can place things with those numbers on castings!

 

[D_W]

Am I correct to take that as I can find a matching 2 on the casting and that'll be good? I think Record just made the lever cap too long here. It's not a fatal flaw compared to the stanley's where it's too short (though I guess I could actually grind the slot higher on that one to move the short lever cap down now if I can just leave this one not fully seated.

I'm just happy to know what the issue with this one is because i plan on selling it and I hate selling things that don't work right without any suggestion to make them work well. The frog on this plane is beautifully made, but as discussed elsewhere, I haven't seen that cost ever equate to better or more stable use.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Check casting numbers and bits as could have a mix of old early and later parts Record Hand Tools

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Can always get some others to check measurements between bottom of slot and base of cap

 

[D_W]

Matching number on the casting and lever cap. both #2. I don't see any number on the main casting unless it's under a handle (didn't take the handles off).

I'm about one draw filing around from having the actual plane flat - the whole thing is a bit strange given the reputation of early record planes and I wonder if it has little use because it wasn't very flat and was a bear to adjust.

 

[Richard C-D]

These photos are my No 8 . Lever cap fits as usual. Hope this helps

 

[D_W]

just measured mine - 1.6" exactly from the bottom of the keyhole to the bottom of the lever cap and 2.475" from the bottom of the lever cap to the top of the keyhole.

 

[D_W]

your lever cap is missing that little "lip" that's on mine and that's what I think is catching on mine and making it hard to advance the iron. It looks like the bottom end has been doctored a little - do you know if that's to make it have less grip on the top of the cap iron?

 

[Richard C-D]

your lever cap is missing that little "lip" that's on mine and that's what I think is catching on mine and making it hard to advance the iron. It looks like the bottom end has been doctored a little - do you know if that's to make it have less grip on the top of the cap iron?

The bottom of my lever cap has just been cleaned up and polished to make sure it sits tight, nothing has been done to reduce the tip to make it fit higher up the chip breaker.

 

[D_W]

I wonder why it doesn't have the same sort of sharp lip at the bottom as mine does. You can see what I'm talking about on the lever cap in my pictures - I can't really see if that's what's really causing resistance to movement without modifying it. Something I'd rather not do if i'm not keeping the plane.

Yours is cleaner than mine but interestingly, the paint or japanning on the top cheeks of mine - still there. However, the nickel plating and the cap iron are stained or rusting, depending on which we're talking about.

The casting on mine is very uneven left/right, but it's kind of a nice 8 to have for actual work as it's overall not so tubby weight wise as some later planes are. It's a little over 8 pounds as I recall.

If I hadn't already ordered another stanley, I'd consider just playing with it and inserting a spacer in the lever cap to prevent it from going "over the hill" at the bottom of the cap iron hump.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Could be yours is a mixture of wrong parts?
Also how tight do you have cap screw done up to?

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Just checked one of mine and end sits in middle of bulge in breaker

 

[D_W]

Could be yours is a mixture of wrong parts?
Also how tight do you have cap screw done up to?

screw tightness for cap iron to iron or lever cap doesn't make much difference except adding a lot of tightness will make it impossible to move the iron at all.

The cap iron and iron are connected tight enough that the set isn't lost even under a lot of tension.

I guess it's still my plane. I could grind some of the rear lip off of the back of the lever cap.

There's one other little nit with the plane that I didn't mention - the lever cap front doesn't quite fit in the cap iron screw slot. I always use the lever cap to open and tighten the cap iron screw. Once in a while, I come across a plane that won't tolerate it and that's not a positive thing for me. It's not the kind of thing I like to fetch a screwdriver for, but it was sort of villified among the early hobbyists "that's a no no!!"

If it was really impermissible, stanley would've made the lever cap front fat enough to prevent it.

 

[raffo]

Here's my Woden W4 with the lever cap pressing down on the cap iron below the hump. The distance between the bottom of the keyhole to the bottom of the lever cap is a bit less than 1.5".