YorkshireMartin said:pollys13 said:YorkshireMartin said:" It's definitely possible to do it using that method but it's the rotating of the stock that I think will create a challenge. I think so anyway, but I am definitely not an expert in any way shape or form."
Just off the top of my head, " but it's the rotating of the stock that I think will create a challenge " I could devise some type of backstop,bit like a bandsaw stop, sort of idea, so all the legs are in the same position when rotate to cut through again? Or set the assembly table next to the wall and use the wall as a lining up stop. I got a 600mm combination square from Machine Mart yesterday to mark out the cut lines, they were best price Should be able to use that to line up ends of legs as Robbins Timber will be doing the initial length cutting and I will trim to suit. The combination square should be good enough for lining up the legs.
In the plans he used an IKEA solid worktop the solid Beech worktop I got is about 14CM longer than the IKEA so that has put the dimensions out a bit. Is why I'm getting Robbins to cut oversize so I don't make a complete bodge,when I work out the amended dimensions.
Type Of Circular Saw Blade For Nice Clean Cut On Redwood?
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MattRoberts
Established Member
You can easily make a Jig that will allow you to make repeat cuts for a tenon
Bm101 said:"Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs..."
Not at all, thanks your advice is very much appreciated.
I know a bit here and there but mostly nothing........ at the moment
My machinists squares are the ones down, from the top precision grade A for checking true squareness of other squares etc. Mine are BS 039- Grade B so should be accurate for most stuff I need to use them for.
I checked the circulars saw squareness to the base plate. I can get to within 0.25mm to the base plate, assuming base plate is ok, looks fine. Is not an expensive saw, Challenge brand make from Argos I think. From what I can tell, seems to me to be very well built and robust. I've only used it once and is like new, though will change the blade to the Freud one.
" Don't forget to grade your cuts. Start off at a minimum depth and increase the depth of the blade each time. Will aid with kickback and prevent scorching. "
Robbins Timber told me, the finished sizes will be, " dimensioned to 95fin x 95fin PAR and the stretchers will be 45f x 95f PAR."
Going by these dimensions, what should the initial depth cuts be and depth of the subsequent cuts?
Grading the cuts? Should this also be a rule to use with the tablesaw? If I'm making a cut of 75mm even though the saw can cut to that depth. Rather than plough through at the full depth in one go, should I do the cut in several passes?
Cutting along with the grain am I OK to rip at the full depth in one go or should I grade the cut as well?
Cheers.
On a table saw, I cut through in one go. If the timber is 95mm and the max depth of cut is 75mm, the only way to go with a circular saw is to grade cuts and then approach from other side, but I would not think this would be hugely accurate.
I am lucky to have an Hitachi cr12rsh. The laser line is adjustable so you can get spot on cuts even without a stop if you are being lazy.
Nick
I am lucky to have an Hitachi cr12rsh. The laser line is adjustable so you can get spot on cuts even without a stop if you are being lazy.
Nick
" You will get some break out with any blade unless a sacrificial piece is used."adidat":3o9x8920 said:
I know how to use a sacrificial piece on the tablesaw. Looking closely at photo A attached you will
notice some break out at the top of the leg. Out of curiosity, how would I attach a sacrificial piece to the leg to avoid any break out?
Cheers.
Attachments
Just a couple of quick clamps either side of the saw will work. Sacrificial wood doesn't matter, scrap pine, mdf , osb are fine if you are inestimably rich you could use pippy oak. All it does is make sure you have no breakout on your working wood.
Uum, I do have a Black And Decker model SMS 254 - 255mm Sliding Compound Mitre Saw 2000 Watt with a laser mark. Blade diameter 255mm depth of cut 92mm (Laser beam -Logger":322avoex said:
The laser beam alignment is set at the manufacturing source and is not user adjustable) Have only started it up a couple of times to be sure worked OK, is like new. Is sitting on top of a workmate with a plastic tarpaulin over it, sometime back I bought a JBC mitre stand from B&Q for it at a sale, discounted price.Opened the box when bought to be sure nothing damaged then taped it up.
This is my first attempt at doing some proper serious woodworking I don't want to make a complete pigs ear of it. I'm feeling a little hesitant to deviate from the plans procedure. I don't want to go off at tangents and do a little bit like that, then another bitr different from the plans say to do things.
If I were to use the Black & Decker should I use graded cuts?
Cheers.
Internet is a great thing. Brilliant in fact! Awesome! But not one bit of reading about the finer points of fine furniture making is going to make a blind bit of difference if you don't put saw to wood and try. Im a self confessed internet over preparer. So I hope you take this the way it's meant. You'll learn more in 20 minutes doing it than 10 hours asking about it on here. Just crack on. Mistakes will be made. You won't make them again. Just crack on and enjoy it. What could possibly go that wrong? 
adidat
I will not buy anymore tools...
I think you are getting over concerned about breakout? its a pine bench a small amount of chipping will not make the slightest difference.
When im producing joinery its always a millimetre or so oversized so that the whole unit can be sanded back slightly to remove any breakout marks or joints which are not quite perfect.
adidat
When im producing joinery its always a millimetre or so oversized so that the whole unit can be sanded back slightly to remove any breakout marks or joints which are not quite perfect.
adidat
Agree with above post, use some scrap timber and have a go. I only started word working proper 3 years ago (am a picture framer so had some knowledge). 3 years on, currently making sash windows for customer, and have work for next 4 months booked in. I have made mistakes along the way, but all my vwork comes from word of mouth so what I finish with seems to work ok.
With compound mitre saw, if your saw will cut depth in one go, do it. Again apologies if teaching to suck eggs, but bring the blade forward then make cut from front to back. I have seen someone just send down blade and then move towards them.
Nick
With compound mitre saw, if your saw will cut depth in one go, do it. Again apologies if teaching to suck eggs, but bring the blade forward then make cut from front to back. I have seen someone just send down blade and then move towards them.
Nick
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
Bm101":1pcunein said:
I lol'd. Isn't that what Festool sacrificial boards are made from? haha
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
Breakout isnt something to worry about for this application. If the clamps and sacrificial boards detract from concentrating on the repeatability of cut, put break out aside and concentrate on accuracy.
I agree with Bm101, adidat and Logger.
To go a little further if I may indulge myself as a beginner. I hope this is of some help to you. Sometimes it helps me to respond to these posts because I've been through it myself and I know that if I'm wrong someone will correct me.
As a complete beginnner, I made my workbench entirely by hand, save for ripping the MDF for the top, where I used a track saw. The joinery was all done with hand saws, planes (bench and shoulder) and a chisel, interesting, using timber of roughly the same dimensions as you. I had the help of youtube and this forum. It worked in the end, but only just, and it took me months and I made many mistakes along the way. I learned so much I can't even begin to explain it. Above all, what I learned was accuracy is everything, that I had to keep my pencil sharp and to watch which faces of timber I am referencing. Even now the top isn't perfectly seated on the aprons because I didn't know the correct technique to plane the end grain at the top of the legs.
One thing I learned with table leg ends is that any errors, no matter how small, will rear their ugly heads when you have finally assembled the bench and try to use it. Table legs are a precision job no matter whether it's for a work bench or a chippendale style table. The best case scenario is to cut all legs at the same time in a single pass on a perfectly calibrated saw (I didnt have one at the time). Anything other than that has the potential to introduce further error. The longer/wider the bench the more exaggerated the error because of compounding (recommended reading, compounding was something I had no idea of since I missed geometry class).
If you've just started this whole game (as I know you have since you've told me), let's talk about margins of error briefly. We're working to fine tolerances when it comes to furniture (of almost any sort). For table leg ends on a work bench, a 1mm error (blunt vs. sharp pencil) will make the difference between a stable bench and a dogs breakfast. In degree's, we're often speaking of 0.1 degree, which sounds completely nuts I know. 1 full degree of error on say, a mortice and tenon joint can be a disaster, heck, half a degree is still quite a long way out and can easily prevent a glue up. It all depends, but often people are surprised, or disbelieving, when you tell them just what level of precision is required for furniture. Your bench is furniture. It needs to be very stable if you're ever going to use it for hand planing, for example.
The instructions you're following are most likely excellent, but, the guy who wrote them might have 30 years experience as a cabinet maker and his tools perfectly calibrated. Something to keep in mind perhaps.
The laser on a black and decker will not be accurate enough. I'm going to take a punt and state that as fact. I'd take a guess that the saw itself will not be either. Obviously you can test this as you have a good engineers square
I totally agree with the trial and error approach. Get an extra length of timber just to calibrate your equipment on. You won't regret it. I spent 6 months (I have limited time to work on it) calibrating all my machines to get perfect cuts, but now I know, if I use my bandsaw, it's 90.0, if I use my mitre saw, it's 90.0, if I use my tracksaw it's 90.0. My planer/thicknesser is within 0.2mm of it's old school manual gauge. All the problems, heartache, stress and lost creative time doing this is worth it, because you then KNOW your joints will connect as long as your marking is on point. I made hundreds of test cuts, spent a lot on quality squares and angle gauges. The peace of mind I have now is worth 100x what i paid for all the bits and bobs to help me do it. It's so liberating I can't put the feeling into words.
Above all, if something does go wrong, don't give in. I almost did. I came so close as to actually put all my tools away and declare that this wasn't for me. I had been defeated by a lump of wood. I was so used to factory produced furniture I had no real concept of what it actually takes to be a craftman. I still dont, but I do have one heck of a lot more knowledge than I did when I started and as a result, I can make square cuts and for example, I know my bandsaw inside out and I know how to take an old stanley hand plane, recondition and then use it, at least on a basic level. It's a brilliant feeling but it took ages, at least for me.
What I'm saying is, this is a journey, enjoy it and don't do what I did and pressure yourself too much.
I agree with Bm101, adidat and Logger.
To go a little further if I may indulge myself as a beginner. I hope this is of some help to you. Sometimes it helps me to respond to these posts because I've been through it myself and I know that if I'm wrong someone will correct me.
As a complete beginnner, I made my workbench entirely by hand, save for ripping the MDF for the top, where I used a track saw. The joinery was all done with hand saws, planes (bench and shoulder) and a chisel, interesting, using timber of roughly the same dimensions as you. I had the help of youtube and this forum. It worked in the end, but only just, and it took me months and I made many mistakes along the way. I learned so much I can't even begin to explain it. Above all, what I learned was accuracy is everything, that I had to keep my pencil sharp and to watch which faces of timber I am referencing. Even now the top isn't perfectly seated on the aprons because I didn't know the correct technique to plane the end grain at the top of the legs.
One thing I learned with table leg ends is that any errors, no matter how small, will rear their ugly heads when you have finally assembled the bench and try to use it. Table legs are a precision job no matter whether it's for a work bench or a chippendale style table. The best case scenario is to cut all legs at the same time in a single pass on a perfectly calibrated saw (I didnt have one at the time). Anything other than that has the potential to introduce further error. The longer/wider the bench the more exaggerated the error because of compounding (recommended reading, compounding was something I had no idea of since I missed geometry class).
If you've just started this whole game (as I know you have since you've told me
), let's talk about margins of error briefly. We're working to fine tolerances when it comes to furniture (of almost any sort). For table leg ends on a work bench, a 1mm error (blunt vs. sharp pencil) will make the difference between a stable bench and a dogs breakfast. In degree's, we're often speaking of 0.1 degree, which sounds completely nuts I know. 1 full degree of error on say, a mortice and tenon joint can be a disaster, heck, half a degree is still quite a long way out and can easily prevent a glue up. It all depends, but often people are surprised, or disbelieving, when you tell them just what level of precision is required for furniture. Your bench is furniture. It needs to be very stable if you're ever going to use it for hand planing, for example.The instructions you're following are most likely excellent, but, the guy who wrote them might have 30 years experience as a cabinet maker and his tools perfectly calibrated. Something to keep in mind perhaps.
The laser on a black and decker will not be accurate enough. I'm going to take a punt and state that as fact. I'd take a guess that the saw itself will not be either. Obviously you can test this as you have a good engineers square
I totally agree with the trial and error approach. Get an extra length of timber just to calibrate your equipment on. You won't regret it. I spent 6 months (I have limited time to work on it) calibrating all my machines to get perfect cuts, but now I know, if I use my bandsaw, it's 90.0, if I use my mitre saw, it's 90.0, if I use my tracksaw it's 90.0. My planer/thicknesser is within 0.2mm of it's old school manual gauge. All the problems, heartache, stress and lost creative time doing this is worth it, because you then KNOW your joints will connect as long as your marking is on point. I made hundreds of test cuts, spent a lot on quality squares and angle gauges. The peace of mind I have now is worth 100x what i paid for all the bits and bobs to help me do it. It's so liberating I can't put the feeling into words.
Above all, if something does go wrong, don't give in. I almost did. I came so close as to actually put all my tools away and declare that this wasn't for me. I had been defeated by a lump of wood. I was so used to factory produced furniture I had no real concept of what it actually takes to be a craftman. I still dont, but I do have one heck of a lot more knowledge than I did when I started and as a result, I can make square cuts and for example, I know my bandsaw inside out and I know how to take an old stanley hand plane, recondition and then use it, at least on a basic level. It's a brilliant feeling but it took ages, at least for me.
What I'm saying is, this is a journey, enjoy it and don't do what I did and pressure yourself too much.
Freud 160mm blades on special offer at screwfix
http://www.screwfix.com/p/freud-pro-tct ... csawblades
Nick
http://www.screwfix.com/p/freud-pro-tct ... csawblades
Nick
