spindle moulder mod

[Alexfn]

hi guys

i have a spindle moulder i now no longer need as i have a bigger more powerful machine, it is only really a light duty machine, the basic fox one and same as the charnwood

so anyway, im thinking about turning it into a permanent router table, i have the router bit collet for it, the problem is its too slow at around 9000 rpm, i dont foresee any problems by getting it to spin at 15k ish as it is capable of spinning up a decent sized block so over engineered for a router table.

however i have no idea where to get replacement pulleys or how to work out what size id need for a given speed. anyone on here able to offer advice on that? thanks

alex

 

[Trevanion]

While it's a very good use for an otherwise redundant machine, you're talking about almost double the intended speed. It's not impossible to pull off but the cheap bearings will probably wear out very quickly. So be prepared to replace them with something like an SKF or FAG bearing which can take the higher speed and loads.

The first thing you should look at it the motor speed on the machine, this shows what the RPM of the pulley on the motor shaft is. You then need to measure the diameter of the pulley (Inside of the groove). With the RPM of the motor, the size of the pulley and the speed you wish to achieve, You enter those into a pulley calculator (Like This) and that will give you the diameter required on the spindle shaft to achieve the required RPM.

If you can't find a pulley to suit your requirements, I'd be more than happy to make one up for you.

 

[Alexfn]

Awesome! Thanks for the link. Would you just make it out of a hardwood? I dont know why that never crossed my mind i could probably knock one up on my lathe if you think wood would be fine?

Yeah i guess if the bearings are rubbish the increased speed could be an issue but would load be above the rated? As I'd imagine a 1/2 router bit couldnt put the same load on as say a 100mm block..

I will strip the machine down next week get an idea what im working with.

 

[Trevanion]

I wouldn't trust a wooden pulley at 15000rpm, personally. If it's only a little heavier on the one side of the pulley, your machine will be walking out of the workshop and down the road from all the vibration from being out of balance.

There would definitely be less load on the shaft using router bits compared to moulder blocks, it's the speed that's the problem. The bearings would be working twice as hard, getting twice as hot and being worn out more than twice as fast.

 

[dzj]

Even if you do succeed in raising the rpms to 15k, it still wouldn't be enough to run
a bit with a diameter of 1" or less. For such bits, you need 20-25k.
With 15k, you can run 2.5, maybe 3" diameter bits.
Better to sell the SM and buy a router table, or swap with someone.

 

[Alexfn]

But where is the fun in that? So we are aiming for 15-25k!

What would you make the pulleys from? Alu?

 

[dzj]

But where is the fun in that? So we are aiming for 15-25k!

What would you make the pulleys from? Alu?

I'm guessing that you have a 2800 rpm induction motor. You'd have to increase rpms
with a pulley (pulleys) about 7-8 times. Even if you could manage it, there'd be a decline in
torque/ power, so I'm not sure how useful it would be.
If you're keen on using the sliding carriage and fence and table top of your existing SM, why not remove the current set up that's under the table and fit in a 1/2" router?

 

[Alexfn]

i never considered that, not sure if its viable will look into it,

yeah you are right never thought about the torque loss, i guess i can try it anyway if the pulleys are not too expensive and if it works fine then look at replacing the bearings

 

[dzj]

In any case, if you give it a go, document it with a few photos.
It would be interesting to see how it goes.
Good luck.

 

[F Flinstone]

Isn't it better to put a bigger/faster motor on it? :?: Ff

 

[Beau]

But where is the fun in that? So we are aiming for 15-25k!

What would you make the pulleys from? Alu?

That's the case in the ideal world but my Felder spindle doubles as router table at 15000 rpm and I will happily put any size cutter in it. Just slow your feed speed with the smaller cutters.

 

[topchippyles]

Seems a lot of hassle,Can you not sell it and buy one that is up to spec for your needs.

 

[Alexfn]

Seems a lot of hassle,Can you not sell it and buy one that is up to spec for your needs.

i could but thinking of the pros/cons,

this machine is around 700 new, i might get 250-350 for it second hand not enough to buy a new table and a router lift or a triton router with inbuilt lift.

with the current machine i have a sturdy cast iron top, induction motor, sliding table. built in lift. the equivalent router table would mean shelling out a lot of money, if this machine could be adapted it would make for a really good router table.

also hoping that its not more than 3 -4 hours work to change the pulleys and bearings

 

[Inspector]

Some other considerations. You shafting and pulleys were made for the shaper speeds. If you double or triple it you may get balancing issues because they were never machined to be run at those speeds to begin with. The precision isn't there for the fit in the bearings, the concentricity and high speed balance may not be there either nor the strength of the alloys. The pulleys were never made to spin that fast so they could fly apart. Think of a drive shaft in a car. You want to sit over it if it was spun three times faster. The suggestion of putting a router in place of the shaft is the smartest route to take. If you really want to make it good you would get a router head intended for a CNC and fit it in the table. Sometimes there is good reason you don't see people doing mods like this to old shapers.

When you fire it up for the first time be sure to say. "Hold my beer."

Pete

 

[Alexfn]

Some other considerations. You shafting and pulleys were made for the shaper speeds. If you double or triple it you may get balancing issues because they were never machined to be run at those speeds to begin with. The precision isn't there for the fit in the bearings, the concentricity and high speed balance may not be there either nor the strength of the alloys. The pulleys were never made to spin that fast so they could fly apart. Think of a drive shaft in a car. You want to sit over it if it was spun three times faster. The suggestion of putting a router in place of the shaft is the smartest route to take. If you really want to make it good you would get a router head intended for a CNC and fit it in the table. Sometimes there is good reason you don't see people doing mods like this to old shapers.

When you fire it up for the first time be sure to say. "Hold my beer."

Pete

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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