Spindle Moulders!

[Against_The_Grain]

They can if they are badly fitted and loose, which is my point. I have several samples in my collection - other peoples cast offs that is!

Please provide photos, I've never seen one break between the holes and it would be interesting to see. Unless you are lying of course and talking out of your rear end.

Even if they are poorly fitted and loose, the centrifugal force forces the gibs outward to bring them tight so I still cannot see how a pinned cutter could break between the holes.

 

[Adam W.]

In my line of work in conservation, where every moulding is unique, spindle moulders are useless and just take up money and workshop space.

Large scale bespoke cutters are too expensive and they produce a uniform moulding along the length of the timber, which is no good for fixing historic mouldings and the uniform surface/section looks out of place in an historical context.

I'd be surprised if spindle moulders can do sections of large undercut 14th century carpenter mouldings like these, which is what I want on a regular basis.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

I'd be surprised if spindle moulders can do sections of large undercut 14th century carpenter mouldings like these, which is what I want on a regular basis.

It could be done and I have done similar in years gone by, especially with a tilting moulder otherwise you would be having to tilt the wood as it’s fed through the machine to achieve the undercut.

As you say though, it’s not in keeping with a building built prior to the industrial revolution.

 

[Jacob]

In my line of work in conservation, where every moulding is unique, spindle moulders are useless and just take up money and workshop space.

Large scale bespoke cutters are too expensive and they produce a uniform moulding along the length of the timber, which is no good for fixing historic mouldings and the uniform surface/section looks out of place in an historical context.

I'd be surprised if spindle moulders can do sections of large undercut 14th century carpenter mouldings like these, which is what I want on a regular basis.

No definitely not. But there is massive potential for copying non undercut mouldings very precisely and it's not much different from shaping a hand plane blade, but in HSS.

 

[Adam W.]

Sure, but the uniformity of machined mouldings, doesn't match historical mouldings which vary slightly in profile along their length.

Small details, I know, but it makes a massive difference.

 

[Jacob]

Sure, but the uniformity of machined mouldings, doesn't match historical mouldings which vary slightly in profile along their length.

Small details, I know, but it makes a massive difference.

Yes difficult to replicate the small variations found in hand work. Spindle too perfect.

 

[Jacob]

I did ask nicely hence “please”. It’s quite clear that you do not actually have any evidence of this happening as you would typically find anything to prove your side of the argument, even going to extreme lengths to find obscure websites that supports your opinion, you’re producing misinformation in what is otherwise an informative thread so please stop unless you can provide actual evidence.

I also found a broken french cutter in my collection. First half I didn't recognise but eventually I found the other half and realised it was a french cutter. My first machine had the slot for french cutters but I never used it. I guess they were popular as you could use any old scrap of metal and easily grind a simple profile for a job. My sample was thin and although it had the notches to locate it firmly in the slot it broke anyway and presumably flew out of the machine, embedding in the workpiece and not the operative, one hopes.

 

[Spectric]

This thread is bringing the spindle moulder to everyones attention and showing us it's capabilities and what is out there so a good thread @deema .

The advantage of a tilting arbour sounds really handy, here is one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18629162...X0WE3B&hash=item2b5fd8901f:g:xg0AAOSwruNlxQbQ

 

[Austin Branson]

That, Deema. I bought a second hand Scheppach 3000 a few years ago, and it works quite well. I would love to find someone who can show me how to use it properly, though!

 

[Jacob]

In my line of work in conservation, where every moulding is unique, spindle moulders are useless and just take up money and workshop space.

Large scale bespoke cutters are too expensive and they produce a uniform moulding along the length of the timber, which is no good for fixing historic mouldings and the uniform surface/section looks out of place in an historical context.

I'd be surprised if spindle moulders can do sections of large undercut 14th century carpenter mouldings like these, which is what I want on a regular basis.


View attachment 176660

Forgot to ask - how do you do those undercut shapes?

 

[Adam W.]

They were part of my MSc research project on 14th century carpentered mouldings, and they were wrought with a special hand tool which I developed as a result of extensive research and development based on historical evidence and critical thinking.

 

[Jacob]

They were part of my MSc research project on 14th century carpentered mouldings, and they were wrought with a special hand tool which I developed as a result of extensive research and development based on historical evidence and critical thinking.

I imagine a deep straight sided slot, followed by sideways cutting rounder of some sort to take out the hollow sides?

 

[Adam W.]

It's all a bit hush hush, as I have solved one of the mysteries of the medieval carpenters craft and I'm not telling.

Do you have a copy of Cecil Hewett's English Historic Carpentry ?

 

[Mrs C]

Tilting Spindles.
This is a feature you find on mid to high end machines. Literally the spindle can be tilted typically backwards 45 degrees and usually up to 10 degrees forward. This is a simply brilliant option and feature, it adds complexity to the machine and needs a robustly built machine to avoid issues of rigidity affecting the cut. Why would you want it? Well let’s take the example of a chamfer, with a single strait edge cutter you can cut just about any angle you want. You can tilt any cutter to produce cuts and shapes that a straight spindle simply can’t. It really comes int9 it’s won when trying to match a profile without having to invest in dedicated cutters us8ng what you already have.

My spindle doesn’t have this feature, I can’t say I really miss not having it, as there are ways around it.


View attachment 176651

Excellent posts, thank you
Felder quote rearward tilt instead of forward as a safety selling point. Can you give your opinion? Thanks

 

[deema]

@Mrs C personally I would look at a tilt backwards to avoid entrapment. Equally it’s cutting from below the stuff rather than above which is again IMO a safer solution. Felder isn’t the only company with tilt back rather than forward.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

Felder quote rearward tilt instead of forward as a safety selling point. Can you give your opinion? Thanks

Rear tilt is typically safer than forward tilt because you're canting the cutters backwards underneath the work rather than forward on top of the work. For example, if you wanted to mould a 20 degree bevel on the edge of a workpiece using a regular rebate block you would be taking it off the bottom edge when it's canted backwards and the timber covers the cut, with it canted forward the cutter is working on the top and is exposed to the operator. With a forward tilting spindle also you have the top of the shaft which tends to poke forward of the cut, particularly when going to the extremes of the range at 45 degrees, the spinning shaft is fairly safe compared to the actual cutterblock, but it could be an entanglement concern. Another point with the forward tilting spindle is it creates far more mess than a rear tilting one, as it's cutting on top of the workpiece it tends to launch chips outside of the fence opening and towards the infeed side of the bed, whilst on a rear tilting spindle it is usually all contained within the fence opening.

There are positive points for both, but typically rear tilt is more useful as well as safer, that said it's more of a luxury than a necessity and can add a lot of cost to a machine compared to one without a tilt function, though most modern ones do have the facility for it now. Personally I would prefer to have a spindle moulder with a reversing function rather than a tilting function if I had to choose between the two.

 

[Doug B]

. Personally I would prefer to have a spindle moulder with a reversing function rather than a tilting function if I had to choose between the two.

That’s the same advice I was given when I bought my spindle along with get a vari angle block as I couldn’t afford the big price jump to a machine with a tilting head, both pieces of advice have served me well

 

[peter-harrison]

Reversible Spindle.
Most hobby and lower end machines will only spin the cutters in one direction. The higher end machines offer the ability to reverse the direction of rotation. This is a feature you will only find on a spindle moulder and isn’t available on a router. What’s the benefit? Well, it’s actually fairly limited, and I can think of only three situations where it’s of benefit.

1. When machining a circle or arch you can climb cut from either end avoiding spelsh as you exit. However, this can be overcome in most cases.

2. It can allow the cutter to remain under the work when reversing blades rather than having to cut from the too which is safer.

3. You can climb cut with a power feed for improved surface finish……not to be advised….in fact I would never advise doing it as it’s dangerous!

Reverse rotation is very useful- I probably use it about 10% of the time. It's mostly best, as you say, when you want to use the cutter upside down. Suppose you want to use a profile that appears on the top corner of the cutter if it's mounted normally. Now suppose that you want to mould a bunch of pieces that are different thicknesses. Without reverse, you have to change the height of the cutter for each thickness of workpiece.
Also, if your workpieces are narrow, and the cutter is swinging over the workpiece, it can easily conflict with the power feed .

 

[HOJ]

My SM has rear tilt, which is a game changer for me, most moulds I run are fairly big, with the tilt I can overcome the limitations of the the size of cutter blanks available to get the moulding I need, for example, a recent section for a window.

Drawing for cutter:



Cutter set in block:



Machining:



The last pic is just to show the set up, it isn't going to cut in that position, but when it was cutting it threw shavings everywhere. (I had sawn off some of the waste as well)

Reverse would be useful, but not an option on mine so I have to think, and overcome that limitation, I have occasionally done a climb cut on it to get a better finish...

 

[deema]

If you have a spindle without very useful feature of tilt it can be overcome with readily available blocks, which is the solution I have. I have two heads to resolve the issue, first is a variable angle head, this takes standard carbide cutters and allows infinite variability of cut plus and minus 90 degrees from the vertical.

The second block allows me to tilt cutters 30 degrees, now this isn’t as flexible as a tilting head spindle and does require me to have in most instances custom made cutters to my own design of profile. However, custom cutters are not that expensive.