Social distancing, .. what's that?

[doctor Bob]

See that's the problem, even on here if you say "we should accept it's going to kill people who are already pretty ill" you are shot down in flames......... "all lives are priceless" sorry but they are not, otherwise the government would not put a limit on NHS spending.
What we really need is a virus which picks off angry passive aggressive people

 

[AJB Temple]

I have just listened to the BBC reporting of the situation in Birmingham and some surrounding areas, where the R rate is very elevated. I come from the midlands and for various family reasons I am plugged in to a degree of medical and pathology information there. What the BBC does not tell you (presumably for PC reasons?) is that much of the area seeing a high incidence of cases is largely populated by Asian and Indian families. Not only is their risk from Covid 19 higher for some reason, but also the social realities and culture tends to mean that families of elderly, middle aged and young live in the same household in a denser fashion than in say rural Kent where I live now.

I am making the point that this country has pockets where cultural factors are radically different and health policy and Covid policy probably needs to take account of that in a far more transparent and protective way. It is in no sense racist to recognise that people of colour may be at higher risk and that they, and population concentrations in some towns and cities, may therefore need to be treated differently - and better. In such communities, the simplistic "let the old isolate" simply cannot work.

 

[billw]

What the BBC does not tell you (presumably for PC reasons?) is that much of the area seeing a high incidence of cases is largely populated by Asian and Indian families. Not only is their risk from Covid 19 higher for some reason, but also the social realities and culture tends to mean that families of elderly, middle aged and young live in the same household in a denser fashion than in say rural Kent where I live now.

This is very true, and I am not sure why the BBC wouldn't (couldn't) report on what is essentially a demographic fact. One of my friends emailed me just now asking if I'd seen the uproar on our local newspaper's facebook group because apparently we're "too posh to catch Covid". Now reality is that there's a huge number of detached houses here, so there's a large degree of natural social isolation, so there's probably some truth in there being less risk.

 

[Blackswanwood]

See that's the problem, even on here if you say "we should accept it's going to kill people who are already pretty ill" you are shot down in flames......... "all lives are priceless" sorry but they are not, otherwise the government would not put a limit on NHS spending.
What we really need is a virus which picks off angry passive aggressive people

I am actually quite angry at the situation. I had to break the news to 240 people this week that they are being made redundant. It’s not entirely linked to Covid but the number would have been far lower without it. I then had to authorise taking a site down for twenty four hours while it was deep cleaned as we had a cluster of employees test positive and other employees were refusing to come into work.

 

[Rorschach]

See that's the problem, even on here if you say "we should accept it's going to kill people who are already pretty ill" you are shot down in flames......... "all lives are priceless" sorry but they are not, otherwise the government would not put a limit on NHS spending.
What we really need is a virus which picks off angry passive aggressive people

Our lives have become so comfortable and safe that we don't know how to have a sensible and practical discussion on death. We think everyone should live forever and we should spend any amount of money to make that happen. We talk about celebrities "untimely death at the age of 95" and we call all deaths a tragedy. Death is a natural part of life, some die young, some die old, in our family deaths have ranged from childhood to almost 100, some natural, some self inflicted. Aside from one murder I wouldn't consider any of them tragic, sad certainly but I wouldn't for a moment shut down the world to stop a natural part of life.

 

[artie]

There is also absolutely no scientific evidence that cell lines cause any issues when ingested

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

 

[MikeJhn]

To try and lighten the mood somewhat, the original Thread name was "Social Distancing what's that"

 

[Oddbod]

But surely it is better to isolate the old who do't have to work than to isolate everyone and tank the economy? Everyone will become poorer in the end and then there will be more health problems.

Put simply we need to keep on as we are but continue to reinforce public health messages

How does one "isolate the old" when many require assistance with daily living, often from people who will visit several other, equally vulnerable people every day, or like myself, where I have to look after my mother, whilst at the same time trying to continue with other aspects of my life?
If a significant percentage of the population acts in a selfish & ignorant manner by failing to socially distance, wear a mask in shops & wash their hands, then it's almost impossible to shield the vulnerable.
Watching some cretin wipe their nose with their fingers, then get back hold of their supermarket trolley handle doesn't inspire confidence, nor does watching a mother & daughter pick up & put down multiple packs of Italian sausage before choosing ONE.
Hopefully a virus that only kills the wilfully ignorant, unthinking & selfish WILL come along & take out half the population.

 

[Oddbod]

The difficulty lies in being told to do it, rather than doing it through your own free will.

Anyone refusing to do something sensible because they've been told to is a pig ignorant, selfish silly person.
There are also a LOT of people out there who are too dim to think to do things for themselves, so what do you suggest: targeted messages only aimed at mouth breathers in order not to upset the terminally offended?

Sheesh...

 

[Droogs]

So, are you meant to water the plants or not?

 

[billw]

Anyone refusing to do something sensible because they've been told to is a pig ignorant, selfish silly person.
There are also a LOT of people out there who are too dim to think to do things for themselves, so what do you suggest: targeted messages only aimed at mouth breathers in order not to upset the terminally offended?

Sheesh...

I agree with all of that, and no I meant that the problem was the people who refuse to do something because they see it as infringement of liberty, not the messaging.

 

[HappyHacker]

Anyone refusing to do something sensible because they've been told to is a pig ignorant, selfish silly person.
There are also a LOT of people out there who are too dim to think to do things for themselves, so what do you suggest: targeted messages only aimed at mouth breathers in order not to upset the terminally offended?

Sheesh...

Have a look at Coronavirus: Ibiza clubber thought to be behind Bolton case spike

 

[Rorschach]

How does one "isolate the old" when many require assistance with daily living, often from people who will visit several other, equally vulnerable people every day, or like myself, where I have to look after my mother, whilst at the same time trying to continue with other aspects of my life?

You find a way to do it as best you can. I could equally say why should someone lose their business, have all their workers redundant and their families lose their house just to protect your elderly mother?
You admit you want to continue with aspects of your life, why not other peoples? You seem to be the selfish one in this scenario.

 

[maznaz]

So I've had a read and the gist seems to be that some people who are not at risk from Covid-19 are happy for those who are to be sacrificed for the good of the economy. Did I miss anything?

 

[Rorschach]

So I've had a read and the gist seems to be that some people who are not at risk from Covid-19 are happy for those who are to be sacrificed for the good of the economy. Did I miss anything?

You're purposely oversimplifying the situation. You know full well it is much more complex than that.

 

[maznaz]

You're purposely oversimplifying the situation. You know full well it is much more complex than that.

Which part isn't correct?

 

[Rorschach]

Which part isn't correct?

I never said you were wrong, I just said you are oversimplifying in order to vilify those that understand the reality of the world we live in.

 

[RobinBHM]

"we should accept it's going to kill people who are already pretty ill"

Its one thing if it kills someone in late stage Dementia, its another if it kills someone who has a very weakened immune system, say transplant patient, somebody with COPD etc...... thats a group who may live perfectly good lives with minimal loss of quality of life but Covid could get.

Hard though it is, there is a good argument to say the human race keeps people alive beyond their natural lifespan and as a result beyond the limit where they have quality of life. As somebody who has spent a fair time visiting one or other parent in hospital I can atttest to the grim reality of seeing bed after bed of very elderly people, lying in a fetal position, just moaning with little awareness of their surroundings.

 

[RobinBHM]

You find a way to do it as best you can. I could equally say why should someone lose their business, have all their workers redundant and their families lose their house just to protect your elderly mother?
You admit you want to continue with aspects of your life, why not other peoples? You seem to be the selfish one in this scenario.

The argument of economy versus health isnt as true as it seems -South Korea, Germany, Singapore all imposed very hard and very early restrictions and with massive test and trace....all have suffered less economic damage.

 

[Rorschach]

Hard though it is, there is a good argument to say the human race keeps people alive beyond their natural lifespan and as a result beyond the limit where they have quality of life. As somebody who has spent a fair time visiting one or other parent in hospital I can atttest to the grim reality of seeing bed after bed of very elderly people, lying in a fetal position, just moaning with little awareness of their surroundings.

I have seen similar. Watched a family member spend 4 years bed bound, almost totally non-responsive apart from when we would visit and tears would roll down their face the entire time. Truly awful to watch.