Silchester plane

[jimi43]

Darn it!!

The game's afoot....

( I totally refuse to work on a Roman plane in foreign units...if they choose to invade our shores....they can damn well adopt our units!). :mrgreen:

Now...the making of the black stuff!?

Any offers?

Jimi

 

[rxh]

Tentatively yes - if it is within my capabilities. Do we know how the side plates were attached to the sole? Or were the sides and sole a one piece casting?

 

[AndyT]

Tentatively yes - if it is within my capabilities. Do we know how the side plates were attached to the sole? Or were the sides and sole a one piece casting?

They seem to have just been riveted through the wooden block, without any metal to metal connection to the sole.
Have a look at the Goodman drawing which shows two big transverse rivets and a central pin which holds the wedge.
One of the rivets is visible in James's photo.

 

[bugbear]

Here's a guy making a Roman plane;

http://lumberjocks.com/YorkshireStewart/blog/4878

It's based on this one

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sow_voigt ... 346646942/

The Goodmanham Roman Plane

This unique Roman woodworking plane with a stock made of ivory was found near the village of Goodmanham, East Yorkshire in the summer of 2000, during the excavation of a pipeline for BP Chemicals. It dates to the 4th Century AD. Length is 13" / 330mm.

BugBear

 

[Bluekingfisher]

What did the Romans ever do for us?

 

[rxh]

Tentatively yes - if it is within my capabilities. Do we know how the side plates were attached to the sole? Or were the sides and sole a one piece casting?

They seem to have just been riveted through the wooden block, without any metal to metal connection to the sole.
Have a look at the Goodman drawing which shows two big transverse rivets and a central pin which holds the wedge.
One of the rivets is visible in James's photo.

Thanks Andy,
I think I could manage that.

 

[jimi43]

Tentatively yes - if it is within my capabilities. Do we know how the side plates were attached to the sole? Or were the sides and sole a one piece casting?

They seem to have just been riveted through the wooden block, without any metal to metal connection to the sole.
Have a look at the Goodman drawing which shows two big transverse rivets and a central pin which holds the wedge.
One of the rivets is visible in James's photo.

Thanks Andy,
I think I could manage that.

Sounds like we have a new project then mate!

I need to finish the RichardT infill first though...so how about starting it around early autumn?

We can do all the planning in between......

Jimi

 

[rxh]

Yes, an interesting challenge.

Early Autumn seems good - I want to try and finish my infill mitre plane first.

 

[JimB]

Has there been any attempt to analyse the iron/steel of the cutter?

 

[rxh]

Here is a preliminary drawing. I based this on: the dimensions provided by AndyT, on scaling from the photos and on my own judgement.

The only dimension that doesn’t “fit” is the width of the blade. This is stated to be 38mm (= 1 ½”) whereas I have drawn it as 1 ¾”, which seems more suitable to me.

I propose the following metallic materials:
- Sole: ¼” thick bright mild steel sheet,
- Sides: 3/16” thick bright mild steel sheet,
- Vertical rivets: 3/8” or 10mm dia. coach bolts long enough to cut the threaded ends off and with the square bit under the head machined down to the diameter of the shank.
- Horizontal rivets: 3/8” dia. bright mild steel round bar.
These are all modern materials but I wouldn’t know how to identify and obtain metal of the true historical “recipe”.

I have drawn the blade as 3/16” thick. Can anyone recommend a type of blade to use and where to obtain it?

Also, can anyone recommend what sort of wood to use or say what wood was used for planes then?

Anyway, the above info. and the drawing are intended as a “starter”. I’ll revise after receiving your comments.

 

[jimi43]

Hi rxh

Thanks for the information and the PDF and preliminary discussions.

I agree that we should make one plane each and based on the discussions following the release of your drawing and parts list.

I am really looking forward to the way this will progress...and we are of course reliant on input from the experts on this forum.

Cheers mate

Jimi

 

[Mr_P]

I MIGHT have a cheap source of infill irons. Currently on route to me from the states are

1 mitre iron 8" - 1- 15/16 wide
*1 chariot iron 7" x 1- 11/16"
**2 chariot irons 4 -1/4" x 1- 1/4"
1 infill cap and iron 7 -1/4" x 2 -1/4"

20 bucks each for the top two and $50 for my big iron and cap, all are 3/16 ths thick.
**$12.50 for the small chariot iron but a stock item.

Not here yet and I'm hoping I don't get stung with import duties.

Happy to lend the irons out for testing by more experienced members but not the planes.

Edit: Yipppeeeee they are here and no import duties, just checked and emails were being sent back and forth late May- mid June but didn't pay until they were complete/ ready on the 8th of July and arrived today 7th August. So not quick but worth the wait.

* Got lost in the sea of emails and I ended up with 2 small chariot irons instead of two different ones. Just checked and I only paid for the smaller 2.

 

[JIJ]

Looking forward to seeing these planes started.
Great stuff

James

 

[rxh]

Well, I've made a start, using some rather rough yew, which I rather like in spite of its imperfections. My left elbow now aches from filing those side plates

BTW, I've made some progress with my infill mitre plane and also had a setback. A report to follow on that thread soon.

 

[jimi43]

WOW...I'm falling behind!!

That is spectacular mate...!!!

=D> =D> =D> =D>

I shall have to get a move on with mine now...

What is the setback with the mitre....I will keep my eye open for that.

Jimi

 

[AndyT]

Great progress there! How did you do the shaping on the yew?

 

[rxh]

Thanks Jimi & Andy,

Jimi - My setback with the mitre plane was I made the rear infill but did a bad job of fitting it so I have had to make a new one. Not a great tragedy but very annoying.

Andy - to shape the yew I marked the profile on sides, top and end. Then I drilled two 1" holes to form the ends of the cutout and removed the waste in between using a powered fretsaw (scrollsaw). After that I removed as much waste as I could by sawing and then completed the shaping using paring chisel, gouges, chip carving knives and abrasive paper.

Today I have rounded the edges of the sides, riveted them on and trimmed the wood level with them. Next jobs are to make the rivetted ends flush with the sides and level the underside. After that comes making and fitting the sole.

 

[Corneel]

Great effort! I love those rivets.

Now I am curious of course how the plane works, in comparison with more modern planes. Do you think you could take a good guess about the size and thickness of these stee plates? The weight of a plane is a factor in how it works.

 

[jimi43]

WOW! Air Traffic Control of the vise squadron!! That is so cool!

"Permission to land Woden Air 186B Heavy....runway 1A...." :mrgreen:

This is a seriously impressive project my friend...and I can't wait for the next episode...

I have a feeling I will have to start mine when you've finished...otherwise things may get a tad confusing....plus I can cheat! :mrgreen:

Great update!

 

[Shrubby]

Excellent thread guys
You might find a plane in Christian Peglow's collection of interest
google - hobelaxt tyrol 1800

Matt