Oh Dear - he's gone and trumped them all!
- Thread starter Random Orbital Bob
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lurker
Le dullard de la commune
doctor Bob":11osk1o9 said:
are they offering odds on him not becoming POTUS
i have a few quid to spare
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
A lot of comment that this could be seen as good news for Corbyn:
"This is not about left and right, as such; it is about a willingness to stand up to the status quo and call for a genuine change in the way we do politics."
Whether or not it's good news for the USA, doubtful, but we do not know!
It's the middle ground being rejected, Sanders might have pulled it off in the USA
"This is not about left and right, as such; it is about a willingness to stand up to the status quo and call for a genuine change in the way we do politics."
Whether or not it's good news for the USA, doubtful, but we do not know!
It's the middle ground being rejected, Sanders might have pulled it off in the USA
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
I agree with Jacob that fundamentally both Brexit and in the US, the sentiment behind the vote is a rejection of the status quo. It's sort of the democratic equivalent of the French revolution! But instead of chopping the heads off the French toffs, the electorate is (thinking it's) giving the Westminster and Washington bubble's a kicking. Whether that turns out to actually happen remains to be seen. Interesting times and that's for sure!
custard
Established Member
Over half of all Americans have seen real declines in their living standards over the past twenty years. Whether you agree with them or not, it's easy to understand why those people didn't vote for more of the same.
Twenty years? I don't think their earnings in real terms have increased since something like 1975!
The real problem is that the semi skilled/skilled jobs that paid half decent wages have gone and they aren't going to return, despite what Trump says. It's how you address these issues and no one has come up with an answer, certainly not Trump. Wealth distribution doesn't go down that well in the US. Then you look at personal debt and the line on the graph. It's being going up at 45 degrees since the very early 80's, a vast increase.
The real problem is that the semi skilled/skilled jobs that paid half decent wages have gone and they aren't going to return, despite what Trump says. It's how you address these issues and no one has come up with an answer, certainly not Trump. Wealth distribution doesn't go down that well in the US. Then you look at personal debt and the line on the graph. It's being going up at 45 degrees since the very early 80's, a vast increase.
Steve Maskery
Established Member
I agree.
The fundamental problem is that we, in rich western counties, have had, not for years, but for generations, a bigger slice of the global cake than is our natural share. Ever since the industrial revolution, we have got rich off the backs of less-developed countries. Now those countries are doing what we did 200 years ago and that means that there is a re-balancing, and we don't like it.
S
The fundamental problem is that we, in rich western counties, have had, not for years, but for generations, a bigger slice of the global cake than is our natural share. Ever since the industrial revolution, we have got rich off the backs of less-developed countries. Now those countries are doing what we did 200 years ago and that means that there is a re-balancing, and we don't like it.
S
AJB Temple
Finely figured
There is an additional US dynamic. I lived there for a while and it is quite an eye opener how insular many of the people are. Not at all travelled, very few have passports, marked ignorance of world affairs, and deeply segregated in some places. We tend to look at America and use our UK / European values to make judgements, but this only applies to a few places and a minority of the population.
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
Clinton was entirely the wrong choice of candidate. Now, Michelle Obama would have been another matter entirely. She'd have wiped the floor with Trump.
For all of Trump's distasteful comments and his shady business dealings - which will come out eventually as you don't get to be a billionaire by playing it straight - he has one major thing going for him. He didn't sound like the same tired old career politician who promise much, deliver nothing and skim off the top. That might be exactly what he will do, but people didn't think so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People scoff about Russia and their corruption problem, yet how is it that the Clintons are now worth $50m when their political salaries, and they are career politicians, would be absolutely nowhere near that amount. It's private money. They are owned by billionaire lobbyists and investors. They are corrupt as they come and have lied and cheated their way through the past 20 years. The Clinton foundation being the icing on a poo filled cake. It will all come out in the wash.
Both candidates were awful, but just being a woman wasn't enough to prevent people seeing Clinton for what she really is. You can't polish a cowpat.
For all of Trump's distasteful comments and his shady business dealings - which will come out eventually as you don't get to be a billionaire by playing it straight - he has one major thing going for him. He didn't sound like the same tired old career politician who promise much, deliver nothing and skim off the top. That might be exactly what he will do, but people didn't think so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People scoff about Russia and their corruption problem, yet how is it that the Clintons are now worth $50m when their political salaries, and they are career politicians, would be absolutely nowhere near that amount. It's private money. They are owned by billionaire lobbyists and investors. They are corrupt as they come and have lied and cheated their way through the past 20 years. The Clinton foundation being the icing on a poo filled cake. It will all come out in the wash.
Both candidates were awful, but just being a woman wasn't enough to prevent people seeing Clinton for what she really is. You can't polish a cowpat.
Lons
Established Member
YorkshireMartin":274p8d93 said:
Dunno about that! It's exactly what Trump reminds me of. :wink:
gregmcateer
Established Member
Steve Maskery":1mqw7ro1 said:
Spot on, IMHO.
I genuinely believe it's going to get tougher for our developed world.
RossJarvis
Established Member
I can't but agree with those who're pointing out that the West is getting a deserved come-uppance.
The major problem we and the Americans face is that the politicians won't tell the truth and us the voters won't listen to it. When they actually admit that the whole system is *****d and don't really know what to do but have some ideas which may work, and we feel it's worth voting for someone who doesn't push the positive, act the strong man/woman, then maybe things could get better.
Although I can't stand most of his ideas, Corbyn is the only politician so far approaching honesty, I can't see him getting anywhere so I don't see things getting better.
The people get the rulers they deserve, so let's face it we're all *******d.
The major problem we and the Americans face is that the politicians won't tell the truth and us the voters won't listen to it. When they actually admit that the whole system is *****d and don't really know what to do but have some ideas which may work, and we feel it's worth voting for someone who doesn't push the positive, act the strong man/woman, then maybe things could get better.
Although I can't stand most of his ideas, Corbyn is the only politician so far approaching honesty, I can't see him getting anywhere so I don't see things getting better.
The people get the rulers they deserve, so let's face it we're all *******d.
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
Lons":tqldbzn8 said:
I know what you mean but in all honesty I didn't think he came across as polished at all, quite the opposite. Just a cowpat. He sounded like an crazed madman for the entire campaign. He becomes president-elect, then suddenly, as if by magic, sounds presidential. His victory speech was really very good I thought. Obviously not written by him, but he still had to be able to speak convincingly.
I can't work him out. Some say he's a closet democrat. Maybe he's the stig.
I think he just said things to shake it up and in reality he's probably far more level headed. I mean, he's had his fair share of business problems, but you don't get to be in that position without being pretty smart. Notwithstanding his rather egregious comments about women but I've heard and seen far worse in the board room of listed companies....
Clinton sucks though, not because she's a woman or a democrat, but because of how she chose to behave, feathering her own nest whilst pretending to be socially minded. Ugh.
RossJarvis
Established Member
YorkshireMartin":q4np9zm4 said:
Throughout the campaign I thought that Trump was too bizarre and offensive to be a credible choice for that particular job and sort of assumed that Hilary was just the obvious sensible choice. Then a few days ago I heard her screaming away at some convention or other and realised that the choice was between two complete and utter dicks. At that point I realised that the Donald was not as bad a choice as I'd previously thought.
Grief, they're both complete nutters, I thought Boris was strange, He's the steadiest most sensible person in the World in comparison.
RogerS
Established Member
I wonder who the Vice President is going to be ? Mickey Mouse ? Seriously, that's who we need to be concerned about as Trump will get assassinated sooner rather than later.
devonwoody
Established Member
The reason D.Trump won is because of Obama.
He's going to create hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of American jobs.
If his promise to Scotland is anything to go by (why shouldn't it?) it's looking distinctly like the mid west has been squeezed by their cojones.
If his promise to Scotland is anything to go by (why shouldn't it?) it's looking distinctly like the mid west has been squeezed by their cojones.
treeturner123
Established Member
A couple of things
First, reference to Ronald R fails to mention that RR was also a politician both when he was acting and after as a not too bad Governor of California. As a result he had some insight into how politics works and a way to make politics work for him. He also had a good support group round him.
Secondly, I agree with the comments about Michelle Obama. What a gracious but firm person she seems to be. If she ran next time, I'd apply for US citizenship to vote for her!!!
Phi
First, reference to Ronald R fails to mention that RR was also a politician both when he was acting and after as a not too bad Governor of California. As a result he had some insight into how politics works and a way to make politics work for him. He also had a good support group round him.
Secondly, I agree with the comments about Michelle Obama. What a gracious but firm person she seems to be. If she ran next time, I'd apply for US citizenship to vote for her!!!
Phi
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