Harry Potter

[DomValente]

After reading a sub thread in General Woodworking my curiosity got the better of me.
I am an avid reader and if, twenty years ago , you had told me I would be reading the Harry Potter books I would have slapped you with my Filofax.
Well I'm Dom and I read J.K. Rowlings' books.

Do You?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Never read one. Who's Harry Potter anyway - is he a woodworker :? :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[ByronBlack]

I'm really staggered that any adult would waste their time reading Harry Potter when there is a whole world of really good and well written literature to be had - I really really do not get it - as you may have guessed

Dom - please tell me what you find so good about these books as in my mind they are squarely targeted for children and quite poorly written IMVHO I would like to understand (I'm not being facetious - generally would like to know your opinion).

 

[Smudger]

There's always a sort of backlash in which some people rubbish anything which is popular - not sure why that is, but they are probably making more of a statement about themselves than what they are distancing themselves from.

Rowling actually writes very well, firm characterisation, strong plots and great themes (good v evil - nothing stronger!). Her style is unexceptional but sound, rather cinematic in later books, which appeals to younger readers in particular. She has a very developed vision of the continuing story, which adds to the interest.

Two points - there is not really a distinction between children's and adults' books - and if there was, why would children's books be considered inferior?
She has brought millions of people, many of them youngsters who didn't read much before, back to reading for pleasure.

From my own point of view, seeing how more able youngsters are caught up in her stories and get tremendous pleasure from them I am very grateful to her.

And her books have sold 325 million copies. So at least a few people find her work OK.

 

[DomValente]

Byron, It's pure escapism.
I also read Simon Scarrow and Clive Cussler.
On the other hand I have studied Freud and Nietzsche.
I read Shakespeare and Tennyson, Kipling and Auden.
Many of these tomes have underlying meanings, Rowling may well be guilty of the same, but I don't look for it.
I'll read most things, including this forum with all of it's hidden intrigue

Dom

 

[Slim]

I'm really staggered that any adult would waste their time reading Harry Potter when there is a whole world of really good and well written literature to be had - I really really do not get it - as you may have guessed

Have you ever tried reading one Byron? I was of the same opinion as you until one day I put my back out and couldn't work. The only book I had on my shelf that I hadn't read was The Philosophers Stone. I read it in about 5 hours, and then immediately ordered the rest from Amazon.com.

I really don't care who it was written for. I enjoy it and that is all that counts.

 

[Gill]

I certainly read them and I've already seen Order of the Phoenix at the local flicks. Not the best film but there again, it's a story which sows the seeds of plots for the remaining stories. It's a bit like Tolkein's The Two Towers in that respect.

No matter what educated readers may think of the technical standard of Rowling as an author, there can be no doubt that the Harry Potter stories have caught the public imagination. What's more, they've done it organically. Bloomsbury, the publisher is not a large concern and when the first stories were published they became popular through word of mouth as children told each other about them. Parents became interested through their children and by the time Prisoner of Azkaban was published, a huge interest had been created. There may be a huge publicity machine attached to the Harry Potter brand now but it didn't start out that way.

There's something about the stories which is captivating. It doesn't matter that they're not technical masterpieces, nor does it matter that they're written for children. The same could be said of Tolkein's works yet their success is unquestionable. The point is that the stories work, they grip the reader. Surely reading a book, any book, has to be better than sitting passively in front of a screen and not having to conjure images in your mind?

Nowadays we're accustomed to information being passed to us in a readily digestible form. Our popular newspapers are written so that they can be consumed by those with a reading age of 11. Reading seems to be perceived nowadays as a means of disseminating information rather than a creative form in its own right which can delight, educate and stimulate. If Harry Potter introduces more people to reading books, then Rowling is making a fine contribution to our society. There's a world of other books to be explored and the chances are that many will use Rowling's writings as a passport to the delightful world of literature.

And I shall be queuing up at midnight for The Deathly Hallows when it's released - I'm hooked !

Gill

 

[Alf]

Alas, in a desperate bid to avoid going "huh"? for the next couple of weeks, I'm ploughing my way through the darn things. I'm afraid Ms Rowling's not a good writer, which is a shame 'cos some of the original ideas are quite good. It's a shame she has to rely on the hero being an eavesdropping little sneak to get the plot moving along so often, f'rinstance. She's got better, mind you, but I think some of that seems to have resulted from the films - not least the slightly more than 2-D characterisation. But heck, it's nice work if you can get it, eh? And if it gets folks reading instead of wearing out their thumbs on games consoles or texting, gotta be a good thing. But adults, have the courage of your convictions and stop with the "adult editions" already! Honestly. :roll:

Edited to conceal potential spoilers - highlight to read! :arrow:Currently perplexed by the Thestrals - if you can see them if you've seen death, surely Our Hero should have been able to see them much sooner? After all, even if he wasn't supposed to have witnessed his mother's actual demise (which I thought he had), what about the guy with wotsit's head sticking out of the back of his skull in the Philosopher's Stone? Don't non-human deaths count either? Smacks of convenient plot device to me - but I shall wade on to discover for myself...

Cheers, Alf

 

[mailee]

AW, darn it ALF! Now you have gone and spoiled it for me. I have to agree with most of the posts on here that it has got to be a good thing if it has made kids start reading again! Last time I gave my son a book to read he asked me where to turn it on!! Got to admit I have never read any of the Harry Potter books but so far have seen most of the movies. Of course at first I thought it was just for kids and of no interest to me but after watching the first movie I was hooked. Mind you I am a big kid according to my wife. :lol:

 

[ByronBlack]

There's really no need for any to try and justify there liking of the books - really, I have nothing against anyone who reads them, I personally just can't understand it - but each to their own, and i'm open and listening to all your points made, so please dont feel my opinion is an attack on your personally because it really isnt', i'm genuinly interested to understand what makes these books stand out from a vast array of superior writers and equally good storylines.

Slimjim - I started reading the first book, got about half-way or so and put it down, the writing isn't very good, and I really don't think the storylines are particularly inventive (i've been forced to watch three of the films) compared to most authors I read. (Briam Lumley, Anne Rice, Stephen King, James Herbert, and like Dom: shakespear, and cussler, I also enjoy HP lovecraft, and Edgar allen Poe and dare I say it Dan Brown).

Smudger - it's too easy to that there's always a backlash because it's popular, i'm questioning it's quality from a well-read perspective, not mearly because it's popular.

Great themes? Good v Evil? Not very inventive, and as transparent as any story i've seen/read.

Continuing story: continuing bank balance! If she is a great writer, why has she not tried anything different for the last 15 years? I'll be intrigued to see what her next non harry potter effort will be like.

However, for kids, i think it's great, anything to get the little blighters to read more and become more literate is a great thing, and it should be brought into the curriculum (not nessacarily harry potter - but books in general).

 

[White House Workshop]

I've never read any of the books but am reliably informed that the writing is 'average' for children's books and well below any sort of good literary standard. I did try and watch a film once (on an aeroplane because there was nothing better to do on a flight back from Sydney!) and I turned off after about 30 minutes as it was REALLY boring...

If it gets kids reading that's one thing, but when they pick up a really good book many of them stop again (told to me by a teacher). We live in an era of instant and simple gratification that requires minimal intellectual challenge. Why else would Nintendo try to get people using their brains again - and make money out of it to boot? And why would anyone be daft enough to pay them for it???

 

[Alf]

AW, darn it ALF!

Sorry! Sorry! Dammit, where are the spoiler tags when you need 'em...? #-o

Cheers, Alf

 

[Smudger]

I'm really staggered that any adult would waste their time reading Harry Potter

Then you wrote
"I have nothing against anyone who reads them"

Well your first statement doesn't read like that!


And I'm answering you from a pretty well-read perspective!

 

[woodbloke]

Agree here with wot Alf's said. I got about 100 pages into the first one and took an almost instant dislike to JKR's view that 'Muggles' (that's you and me) are universally stupid klutzes and that the sun shines out of all orifices if someone has a hint of so called 'magic' about them, so havn't bothered with any of the others nor even the cinematic versions......now Sharpie, CS Forester or Tolkein are somat else entirely :wink:....as an aside tho', it is interesting to have a coffee in the Elephant Cafe in Edinburgh and possibly sit at the same table where JK penned the first rough copy a few years ago and a whole lot of £millions ago as well - Rob

 

[ByronBlack]

I'm really staggered that any adult would waste their time reading Harry Potter

Then you wrote
"I have nothing against anyone who reads them"

Well your first statement doesn't read like that!


And I'm answering you from a pretty well-read perspective!

Smudger, no need to start dragging the argument out of context try and give a reasoned retort to my statement.

I am entitled to think that reading harry potter is a waste of time and yet respect others wishes for doing so - why is that hard to understand?

For example: I'm also staggered at why a grown adult would want to read the Sun newspaper, but does that mean I have a personal grievence with them? Of course not, it's their choice, just as reading Harry Potter is their choice, i'm simply challenging those who do read it to help me understand what the appeal is. And i've yet to be convinced by anyones argument, other than Dom's reasons for escapism.

So come on smudger me old pal - give me one really good solid reason that would convince me to put down a good Dan Brown book (just as an example) in preference to a Harry Potter?

Dom - I noticed you studied Freud; I think you may enjoy the book I mentioned somewhere else in the previous discussion: Interpretation of murder, it's a fiction tale based on factual events of when Freud, Jung, Ferneczi et al travelled to america to spread the word of psychoanalysis - and get caught up in a murder investigation. A young follower of Freud's techniques is given the task analyze one of the victims to work out the murderer - exceptionally good book and a nice insight into some of Freud's Oedipal theories. I think you may enjoy it.

 

[woodbloke]

....thinking about it a little further, my daughter Megs when she was in the 6th form a few years ago suggested they do a Christmas review.......Harry Pothead and the Chamber of Sextoys :lol: ..... got booted straight into touch :lol: - Rob

 

[Slim]

Byron, its all a matter of taste. Nothing anyone could say would make you understand as it is simply not your taste. In the same way that Dan Brown is not to my taste. Although having said that, I did quite enjoy Angels & Demons and the Da Vinci Code, but I disliked Deception Point and Digital Fortress.

We have different tastes in all walks of life, whether it be music, films, furniture or books. As you say, "each to their own"

Did you enjoy Lord of the Rings?

 

[ByronBlack]

Slimjim - fair point, but I think the difference is that I see Dan Brown books aimed at the adult fiction market, whereas Harry Potter IMO is a childs set of books, so i'm finding hard to understand what the appeal for an adult would be considering the same thing for adult market is catered for by other authors and story genres - I can't see the appeal or the fanatacism that some people are about what is essentially a very non original set of characters.

Lord of the rings - film or book? The films were ok, again they are childrens stories, I read the hobbit when I was younger, got bored by it, and dipped in and out of the other books. I'm not a major fan, but was certainly more original and ground breaking than harry potter.

 

[Slim]

I agree with you that more 'suitable' books are availiable for adults, and I will probably read those as well. However, as far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with enjoying Harry Potter whether it be written for childeren or not. (I know you are not saying that there is).

Maybe I am a bit of a big kid, but I also enjoy the new wave of animated films, and often find them a lot more humourous than the so called comedies that are released for the adult audience. At the same time though, I read and watch lots of adult orientated books and films.

I suspect the only way you could satisfy your curiosities with the Harry Potter books is to sit down and read them all. A suggestion that might not go down so well. You said that you got half way through the first book, which is probably the worst of the lot. The subsequent books become more intertwined with each other (rather like one book split into 4 or 5 installments.) I found that the story became almost addictive, and I had to read on to find out how pieces of the plot related to each other. I think the third book (The Prisoner of Azkaban) has been the best so far. The plot and the use of time travel are very clever.

I only asked about The Lord of the Rings, because I found the books rather boring. There was far to much 'setting the scene' going on. Tolkein described the scenery down to the very last leaf on the very last tree, which became very tiresome, when all I wanted to know was what was going to happen next.

 

[DomValente]

Thanks BB, sounds good to me, but you could have told me a couple of hours ago when Waterstones was still open

Dom