Customer demanding rebuild after 7 months of use or refund.

[Stiggy]

I want to point out something here - the customer is NOT always right - but the customer does always come first!

The problem with consumer rights is they have been made clearer by last years update on them, and people are more prepared to complain if the slightest thing goes wrong.

I worked in shop management for 12 years and am still involved in customer service.

This link will help you understand where you stand a little better - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Globa ... oodsOL.pdf

Now the last one, the bit where it says it must last a reasonable length of time, is the tricky one, but also interesting - you don't HAVE to give people refunds.

With your situation, what you have to remember is that wood is a natural product, and as such, is prone to movement.
Have you made similar items for other people? Have they stood the test of time with reasonable use?

I agree with others above, you do need to put a maximum weight limit on the information given with each product, because without that information, the customer won't know if they are overloading the shelves or not. Saying that - check the guarantees that places like Argos or Ikea give - you'd be surprised at the lack of them covering timber products.

Maybe see what other companies policies are?

Personally I would either;

Offer them a 10% refund back as a goodwill gesture
Rebuild - with the rebuilt one, include your maximum weight for shelves and a limited guarantee for workmanship and material defects.
Give full refund, get the item back and resell it

Social media is a pain in the behind these days - we've all seen those photos on Facebook that people send round asking for as many likes or shares as possible - it's not like the old days when they had to write a letter or phone people to share bad news.

I hope you get this sorted without too much financial loss.

 

[Jacob]

What about refund less 10% for the time they've used it - subject to close examination to see it's not been misused.

NB Sagging shelves is almost always due to mdf, chipboard, cheap blockboard/ply. These are only usable in short lengths. If this is the prob use redwood next time, or framed up manufactured board.

 

[Wuffles]

Now the last one, the bit where it says it must last a reasonable length of time, is the tricky one, but also interesting - you don't HAVE to give people refunds.

Erm, you know the OP said it was 7 months ago? And he/she's repaired it once already?

"Failed repairs After one failed attempt by the retailer to repair or replace a faulty item, you're entitled to ask for a refund or price reduction."

I've just done that with a Pioneer stereo, full refund, 7 months into using it (one month of which it was in for repair).

A reasonable time is from the old Sales of Goods Act, and it was vaguely assumed to be 6 years, depending on the item, it's now been clarified in the new act I believe.

Anyway, as everyone has said, probably best to walk away and take the hit. I do hope we see the OP again, first post and all that.

 

[woodfarmer]

I ran my own business for about ten years. When setting up I had a good think about warranties and advertising. I resolved not to pay for advertising , instead put that money into ensuring all warranty situations were resolved at least to the customers satisfaction. Do it with grace and a smile. Make the customer feel important and cared for. My business grew 10-14 % annually until the day came when I had to sink a huge amount of money and time into becoming a full manufacturer. I was about to retire so too the easy way out and set up a much simpler to run business for my retirement. I still follow the same practices, it seems to work.

Of course there is always the really awkward customer and it is better to part company with those as best you can.

 

[beech1948]

I'm sure by now you have decided on what to do.

However, there is time to try to think through the issues which have caused this.

Did the shelves really sag. By how much and under what weight over what width.

Did you uise the best materials for the job and did you construct them in the best way given you know that mdf/ply/wood will sag.

Go look at the item and see what changes you would need to make to ensure no more sagging. eg do the shelves need a mid point support all the way up.

Remember that this customer may still be a good future customer if you fix this. Be critical of yourself and your work to get better.

Something caused this..what is it.

 

[woodpig]

Assuming your time is worth more than the product, I agree with the others. Cut your losses, give them a full refund and simply don't deal with them again.

+ 1

 

[skipdiver]

Tell them to buzz off and punch them in the face, that's what i do.

 

[custard]

I had a customer once who was adamant they wanted floating shelves. I explained that because the wall they'd be mounted on wasn't really suitable it could only ever support very very light weights. That's not what they wanted to hear, so on the receipt I put the "light weights only" caveat in big letters and spelt it out to them again that this was critical. On a subsequent job for them I noticed they'd used the shelves to display an old cast iron weigh scale complete with loads of cast iron and brass weights. I took a crafty photo on my phone against the day (which will surely come) when the lot comes down, and they start moaning about my workmanship and swearing blind they only ever used it for displaying dried twigs and novelty balloon animals.

Getting off track but there's another similar dilemma I face today. There's a healthy market for desks made from solid timber slabs. Like floating shelves they're fashionable, and because there's no high street competition I can turn a reasonable profit. Problem is that solid timber and slab tops will never stay completely flat. Doesn't matter for say a dining table or a bar top, but a desk will need to support a computer keyboard or a laptop, so unless it's absolutely flat the keyboard will rock every time you depress a key which will drive the user potty.

Tricky one this because there's plenty of demand from design studios, editing and post production facilities, architect's offices, and any other business looking to project a cool, contemporary image. So much so that the problem is finding suitable waney edged slabs rather than finding customers, but despite clients saying they'll just wedge the keyboard with a bit of foam I think it's another case of style triumphing over function.

 

[transatlantic]

Getting off track but there's another similar dilemma I face today. There's a healthy market for desks made from solid timber slabs. Like floating shelves they're fashionable, and because there's no high street competition I can turn a reasonable profit. Problem is that solid timber and slab tops will never stay completely flat. Doesn't matter for say a dining table or a bar top, but a desk will need to support a computer keyboard or a laptop, so unless it's absolutely flat the keyboard will rock every time you depress a key which will drive the user potty.

Tricky one this because there's plenty of demand from design studios, editing and post production facilities, architect's offices, and any other business looking to project a cool, contemporary image. So much so that the problem is finding suitable waney edged slabs rather than finding customers, but despite clients saying they'll just wedge the keyboard with a bit of foam I think it's another case of style triumphing over function.

*cough* provide a re-flattening service *cough*

 

[custard]

*cough* provide a re-flattening service *cough*

I thought of that but it founders on the practicalities. The trestle bases I usually use can't really support hand planing (slabs are generally too wide for my 410mm planer), plus it'd be a re-flattening and re-finishing service and no one wants multiple coats of smelly and inflammable oil being applied in their premises. So that means clearing the desk, finding an alternative work station, transporting the desk back to my workshop, taking it out of action for a week or two, then re-delivering it.

What's more it might need to be done two or three times a year. Faced with all that mega faff the bit of foam solution will always win out!

 

[whiskywill]

The enquiry regarding qualifications is very relevant since I am frequently seeing very poor quality work turned out by people who are just taking advantage of the current shortage of decent tradesmen. There are those who are charging top prices for rubbish! On the other hand I have seen great work done by amateur woodworkers. If customers had the sense to enquire about qualifications, check previous work or seek recommendations from past customers.
There are some excellent craftsmen and women out there but you need to ask sensible questions rather than assuming that adverts and wild claims are true. I have seen contributors on this type of site saying that they have given a price for some work and then asking how to do it!

But no amount of paper qualification waving will guarantee a proper job. It should but doesn't and would not stand up in a court case. It's the suitability for purpose that is in question not how long the maker spent getting trained.

Surely, to admit being qualified after the shelf sagged, due either to the wrong choice of materials or, possibly, a fault in the workmanship or design, would go against him. Misuse by the owner is another matter.

 

[PassionforWood]

Sorry to hear your problem. There will always be customers our there that will try there best to find a fault with what we make.
Most of the time they are unreasonable people in general.
I have had a couple in the last 30 years.
I would advise to refund then the money and take the goods, sell on & try to keep a smile on.
These kind of people are few and far between, so don't let it dishearten you you.
Keep smiling my friend!

 

[RobinBHM]

Its best to take an objective view, the value of the work you would have to refund likely less than the interruption to your business that you would spend; thinking about it, stewing over it, writing reports, worry about litigation etc. Once youve refunded, you don't have to think about it any more and use the experience to cover yourself in the future.

 

[Baldhead]

In your shoes I would give a refund, try not to give a total refund as they've used the goods for 7 months, but don't argue, sell on the goods at a discounted price to recoup something, never deal with this person again, WARN other trades in the area about them, in other words BLACK LIST THEM, move on, forget it, don't let it fester away, you'll suffer in the long run.
Some people are never happy, put it down to experience, read the advice given here and absorb it.

Stew

Edit I am not and never have been self employed, but I have taken an individual and a company to the small claims court and won, but tbh both were more 'moral' victories!

 

[Jacob]

What were the shelves made with?

 

[Wuffles]

Hit and run question, that's been asked a few times now, OP hasn't been back.

 

[ColeyS1]

What were the shelves made with?

3mm hardboard

Coley

 

[Aggrajag]

Hit and run question, that's been asked a few times now, OP hasn't been back.

Frustrating isn't it

 

[Wuffles]

What were the shelves made with?

3mm hardboard

Coley

Supported with 1mm dominos at the back though.

 

[BearTricks]

Has it been established whether the customer is just taking the water or not? I must admit, it sounds as if they are just trying their luck because they already decided that they want a refund rather than a repair.

How much of a hit would you take just to refund them and then write them off. Consumers have databases of high-rated tradesmen, but considering how much of a blow a refund and a bad review could be to low profit margins, people just trying to make an honest living could do with a database for trusted customers and ones that are potentially damaging.

I might be tempted to look in to the legality of that, actually. I'll email which.com later on.

Edit: The phrase "The customer is always right" is actually meant to be advice for salesmen, rather than meaning that the seller should bow down to the customer's every whim regardless of how ridiculous. It means the customer's choice is always right, so if they've decided on something then don't try to talk them out of it because you know better. Just guarantee the sale. Unfortunately it's been twisted in to more of a consumer rights thing. It doesn't really apply any more anyway due to the proliferation of upselling.

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