Box of Oriental Charm

[skeetoids]

Hi Folks,

1st box I've turned, and it's a little commission piece. The customer saw another piece I did and wanted a box in a similar style as a gift for her Mum.

Here is the piece she saw:

Pot of Oriental Charm:

And here's what I've made so far:

Ash, open grain stained red with gold acrylic, 105mmx70mm:

Many thanks for looking.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi,

I'd appreciate comments from anyone who makes boxes.

This was my 1st attempt and although I have learned a lot it would be nice to get some pointers on this piece.

Many thanks,

Lee. :ho2

 

[wizer]

Hi Lee. I really appreciate your enthusiasm and ambition. But it seems you're not improving, either in technique or design. This piece has visible tool marks and the colour looks patchy. The textured areas are not defined and in general it does not look finished. The form of the lower half is passable, but the lid and finial look uninspiring. The curve of the lid should flow into the finial and the tip of the finial needs to connect to the rest of the piece. The only positive comment I can give is that you appear to achieved a good fit on the box and have hidden the join well when the box is complete. I still struggle to get a good fit on boxes, so it's a good skill to have mastered.


I have said this before to you. But I think you should pick 2 or 3 designs and do them over and over again until you have completely mastered them. Then explore other avenues. Do you sketch? This is something I never used to do, but lately I have felt drawn to it (excuse the pun). I love playing with shapes and designs. Study the work of others. Jot down what you like about them. Go into finer detail about the curves and the surface treatments.

Finally, if you can possibly afford it. Go take a class with a professional turner you respect and admire. Get inside their pyshce. Find out what it is that they are expressing.

Mostly, keep going, but make sure you are constantly analysing and improving.

I hope that was constructive enough.

 

[wizer]

Also Lee. How did you manage to turn this in the future?

 

[stevebuk]

Nice well balanced answer Tom.. =D>

 

[Blister]

Hi Lee. I really appreciate your enthusiasm and ambition. But it seems you're not improving, either in technique or design. This piece has visible tool marks and the colour looks patchy. The textured areas are not defined and in general it does not look finished. The form of the lower half is passable, but the lid and finial look uninspiring. The curve of the lid should flow into the finial and the tip of the finial needs to connect to the rest of the piece. The only positive comment I can give is that you appear to achieved a good fit on the box and have hidden the join well when the box is complete. I still struggle to get a good fit on boxes, so it's a good skill to have mastered.


I have said this before to you. But I think you should pick 2 or 3 designs and do them over and over again until you have completely mastered them. Then explore other avenues. Do you sketch? This is something I never used to do, but lately I have felt drawn to it (excuse the pun). I love playing with shapes and designs. Study the work of others. Jot down what you like about them. Go into finer detail about the curves and the surface treatments.

Finally, if you can possibly afford it. Go take a class with a professional turner you respect and admire. Get inside their pyshce. Find out what it is that they are expressing.

Mostly, keep going, but make sure you are constantly analysing and improving.

I hope that was constructive enough.

Tom

From what I have seen of Lee's work he has a style of his own

Maybe not everyone's taste but Lee likes it

Have you looked at his web site ?

Most items have sold , so he must be doing something correctly

I have always advised new turners including yourself in the early days to draw out what you want to make , if you don't do this how do you know if you have succeeded ?

Lee has an artistic side that he obviously likes to explore it

I / we have mentioned not running before you can walk , but it looks like Lee likes to run

The only thing I cant get my head around it the names of each item ? , like this one " Box of Oriental Charm " Huummm :-k :-k

But again this does give it a character of its own .

I can see Lee is happy doing his own thing :mrgreen:

 

[wizer]

Yep, I've seen all of Lee's work. He was asking for constructive criticism. I gave my opinion on the form and quality. My advice was also to sketch and analyse. It's good advice. Digital pictures can not always portray the real image. So perhaps I have seen this in the wrong light. If Lee is happy with his work then I retract my comments and agree that he has his own style which he seems to be settling into.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi Folks,

Really excellent comments.

Thanks Tom, appreciate your remarks very much and Blisters too.

I understand and appreciate all of the comments but find myself turning away with very little guidance other than this forum.

I have looked into tuition but my ideal turner lives too far away and the financial cost of a 1 day course would run to about £400 to £500!!!

I have it in me to improve and I very much appreciate the advice to try to stick to a few pieces and improve on them.

What I find nyself doing is trying to explore lots of different things just to see what happens. The good thing about this is that I am relatively unrestrained in my approach but I often turn out rubbish TBH!!!

I did enjoy doing this box and have watched a few really good box making vids on the TUBE, I am definately going back and trying another box and will concentrate on doing my best.

Thanks once again folks.

Lee.

 

[wizer]

I certainly understand financial issues. It took me a while to save up for the Mark Hancock course earlier this year. But it was worth every penny. I really feel like my approach to work has changed, for the better.

Lee, do the box again. Do it the same way, the same design, but tweak it. Think about the lines flowing through the piece. Think about adding more layers of colour. Think about a smoother finish. Maybe taper from top to bottom. Maybe make an insert for the finial.

I know what it's like to just let things happen on the lathe and that's fine, I still do that a lot. But if something doesn't turn out the way I like, I do it again.

Where are you sourcing your wood? Think about finding a tree surgeon or other source of free wood for practising. Make solid forms to practice shapes and finishes. It speeds up development 10 fold.

 

[Silverbirch]

Hi Lee,

Have you looked at the books and DVD`s by Chris Stott and by Richard Raffan on boxmaking? They have loads of information on technique and plenty to ponder over with regard to design.


Ian

 

[skeetoids]

Hi,

I will definately be doing a box again that's for sure, I really liked the process.

I read some recent reviews of Richard Raffans DVD on box making and the general concensus was that it was not for beginners, nor did it seem to cover some basic stuff that a beginner may not realise.

Like I said, I found a really good source online so I will give the box another go.

Silly really, but I didn't even sonsider putting a tennon on either end of the blank for mounting later. Don't know what I was thinking but I guess this is the path of knowledge.

Thanks once again.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[skeetoids]

Just a wee update, checked my e-mails and the customer wants another 2!

Slightly different design being requested but I am going to work my best on these 2.

Will update soon with the new and improved boxes.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[mark sanger]

Hi Lee

Box making is a skill like any other. I am certainly not a master at it and often speak to others in this field for advice etc.

I have some info that I will send you Monday.

In relation to form etc this can be done with observation and being self critical.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a piece with a textured surface as long as it it intended. This is different from leaving a texture from the tools which is not intended.

Often if I am adding a texture I will totally contrast this with a highly finished area so it is obvious that the textured area looks as if it is suppose to be.

With the form on this it may help if you reflect the form of the shoulder in the lower part towards the base also.

IE the base/sides come up fairly straight and then change direction. This make the box look heavy.

However if you curve the bottom 1/3rd in do that the base finishes somewhere around the diameter of the top of the lid then this will tie the two in together and balance the piece more.

For the handle/knob on the top you could try concave this down back into the centre and this will draw the eye down and back into the box.

Just some ideas.

Keep experimenting.

have you looked at the Japanese Raku tea cups/ceramics. They are very free in there form and on occasions look as if they have melted. Good to look at as they are far removed from what is normally associated with pure form in our sphere.

 

[cornucopia]

hi Lee

I find that the smaller the item the finer the detail and finish must be- when learning to make box's you might find it helpfull to use closer grained wood as they hold detail better and are easier to work with in box making compared to ash oak etc

My advice would be to never date your work only sign it- and try to keep your signature as discreet as possible

I prefer (and find it easier) to put the female tenon in the lid

this box isnt to my taste but for a first attempt is brillant as box making is a deceptively difficult skill to master

best wish's
george

 

[mark sanger]

George is the one I contact by the way Lee when I need advice on Box making.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi Folks,

Thank you for the thoughtful comments.

I will be taking these on board and duly inwardly digesting.

I haven't been at peace with myself recently and that is affecting a lot of what I do, including my turning. However, I should get a chance to have some quality time in the workshop tomorrow. What will be helpful is the fact that it has all been cleaned, hoovered etc. ready to rock.

Thank you once again.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[George Foweraker]

Hi Lee

For the life of me i cannot see any charm in this box.
To me very often your work looks like you have added texturing and colour to hide poor workmanship.
I would like to see you produce some work that is good form and good finish without all the texturing and colouring.
I have a feeling you crash into things with very little thought and sometimes it shows.
As you know i texture and colour a lot of my work but i always try and make sure the form and finish are good prior to adding texture and colour.
Evan if i am going to create a rough texture on a surface i still sand it to a finish prior to texturing and colouring this way i am confident that i am texturing and colouring for the right reasons.
Please dont think i am climbing on the criticism Lee bandwagon i am not.
Funnily enough i was only discussing your work with Mark Sanger today as i had not seen this topic i was not influenced by it.
I said exactly as i have said above and Mark pointed out to me that you have done good work and mentioned some bowls that i have not seen.
Mark also pointed out that you are just trying different styles and exploring, which i must say is wonderful.
Keep up the good work mate and ignore me i am just being a know all.
Regards George

 

[skeetoids]

Hi George,

Don't worry about being honest, you have a blunt, direct way of speaking and I've come to learn this about you over time.

Your comments are just as valuable as anyone elses, you say what you mean and that's that!

I agree with you in part, lately I've lost whatever edge I had with turning, but, I'll get it back. For me, it's a mood thing, I'm feeling ok and hopefuly that will show in my next few pieces.

Anyway, your comments are much appreciated, I know you don't say much so the fact that you've taken the time to comment is very much appreciated.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[mark sanger]

Hi

Just to clarify on what George said above.

I actually said that you had made some "pure work of a good standard too".

Meaning that you also make untouched work.

George's reference sounds as if your other work is not good in my eyes which was not the conversation. As experimenting and creating is a positive trait.

Too much emphasis in woodturning is given to producing perfect pieces all the time especially when posting these in forums, as we often want to receive positive praise. Yes we should strive for quality tool control but we should also experiment without worry of failure.

I am not criticising what you have said George, as I too like you "say what you think" personality. Not that you would take any notice of ma anyway.

Experimenting, failing and at times succeeding reaps fare more benefit than staying safe.

Yes tool control and study of the classic style/forms should be studied too.

But I also wonder what the most honest work is. Work that is made as a reflection of the makers thoughts etc. Or work made to conform.

 

[George Foweraker]

Hi LEE and Mark.

Sorry if i gave the wrong impression it was not intentional.
It was exactly as mark said and i must have worded it wrong.
I will try again.
I said i thought you might sometimes be covering poor workmanship with texture and colour.
As mark said he pointed out you had been doing very good quality work lately and gave some recent bowls as an example.
I have watched a lot of your work since you started and the one thing i have always admired is your sense of adventure .
But i still think although something is coloured and or textured it must not be used to hide poor work or form.


Regards George