anyone run their own design and manuf furniture co.

[RobinBHM]

For marketing advise, esp website and SEO I joined UKbusiness forum where there are some very knowledgeable professionals that post. You will get robust opinions though, so be prepared.

My biggest concern for your business model is whether people will buy furniture from a website rather than a showroom. Customers often have little capacity to appreciate dimensions and a website cant easily transfer the 'touch' sense (who doesnt go into a furniture store and run there hand over the a top and try the drawer. Market research in this area would be a good starting point. It woudl be great if there is a sufficient market as there is little to offer in the furniture market between Ikea, oak furniture land and the small studios in the Kings road and Chelsea. It seems a shame that Oak furniture land, SCS etc seem to operate like a second hand car showroom -constant sales and commission driven sales teams.

Best of luck with your venture. Stay on the forum for any construction advise. Avoid asking about sharpening (anything)!

 

[Jacob]

...he point I was really making is that people make this assumption, but if you have never actually done e-commerce (I have) then it is not as easy to make work effectively as you might think. It will consume a lot of your time. You must spend time understanding how they work, when you will actually get your money, what it will cost you to set up, integrate and then run operationally,....

Paypal is dead easy and the most convenient of all. All you need is an email address for your buyer, or to remember your password when you are the buyer. Don't even have to key in address or anything. Charges are not low, but probably well worth it.

whether people will buy furniture from a website

Of course they will and it's booming massively. All the big stores do on-line as well. If in doubt you can always visit for a hands on experience and you have rights to return things.

 

[wolfey]

Very good post AJB Temple..... And as most of my career in the industry and its expansion have been down to "CHANCE HAPPENINGS" the above happened to me by chance, I built a company that exceled in one area of the industry and at its height was producing over 60% of it product for one major company. At this level you need to understand the difference between a "MAJOR" and an "INDEPENDENT" we was an independent on the higher end of the scale.
All my business advisers advised against having such a large part of the company dedicated to one firm, understanding that if they went bust we would be ruined over night. I ignored them largely out of greed and growth!!

We finally got to the point where the company stood to become a "MAJOR" and the investment required was well out of my comfort zone as was still rather young and uneducated to that level of business. The out come was that the MAJOR that we produced 60% of our product for bought us out. They took over the whole company including lease, machinery and staff and myself and my production manager left to set up in another field of interest in the industry.

Yet again something I never planned, I have now apprehensions of it happening again as I don't have the business knowledge on that end that AJB Temple has, or the interest.....I just do what I do in business because I get a kick out of the ups and downs and a drive to succeed.

I strive for personal success, not the money.... but the by product of success is money!!

For navypaul,

Having a better understanding of the direction you wish to take now I would advise...

Number 1, a moneyed market is a down to earth market.. Take a look at companies like THE LOLLIPOP SHOPPE where you will find 5k tables for sale alongside £300 tables. All by MAKERS due to the 8 week lead times.

Start simple by making say 3 items you are proud of and truly represent you as a maker, ideally a Table a Storage unit and a chair.
Then put them on a simple selling place like Etsy. Don't plan to make a fortune from them, simply money for more materials and new blades.
Also put them on a blog forum like "DEZEEN " magazine online, this can easily make you an over night "DESIGNER" it wont actually lead to much but when your website comes along you may have a small editorial from it you can put on there.

Lastly get a small exhibition stand at something like "100% design" Will cost 3.5-5k but here you will meet an array of high end interior designers, architects and most of all the Buyers from places like Lollipop Shoppe and Liberty London.

You will learn a lot as will be a slow and steady entrance to the makers industry and hopefully answer many questions to how you wish to move forward........But remember it is all about what you do and how you play those CHANCE HAPPENINGS.......

Best

Wolfey

 

[Wuffles]

whether people will buy furniture from a website

Of course they will and it's booming massively. All the big stores do on-line as well. If in doubt you can always visit for a hands on experience and you have rights to return things.

Has the OP factored this in? That'd be my worst nightmare as a "maker" - Oh I received this, but it's too woody, or whatever, can you collect please.

Forget that.

 

[navypaul]

Paul

There is a lot of good advice here if you get rid of all the banter and fluff. As I may have said earlier I am not in the wood business, but I have built up to scale and sold several businesses in different fields (for example fourth party logistics, property development, and currently specialised financial services) so I have an idea of the challenges you face. Most people that I see discussing this kind of thing on forums are very focussed on making stuff. They enjoy the woodwork, they may well be skilled at it too. However, bear in mind that being good at woodwork is just a core attribute for your business. It will not succeed just because you a re a good woodworker (though it will certainly fail if you are not) - it will succeed because you have put the thought and planning into the other things that are essential. Your business plan must deal with with your route to market, distribution, financing working capital, a financial buffer and so on. Internet free consultancy (as on this thread) can only do so much - you must develop or find other business skills.

I made a somewhat trite remark earlier in this thread about needing a payment mechanism for on-line sales and you responded that there are loads available. The point I was really making is that people make this assumption, but if you have never actually done e-commerce (I have) then it is not as easy to make work effectively as you might think. It will consume a lot of your time. You must spend time understanding how they work, when you will actually get your money, what it will cost you to set up, integrate and then run operationally, how you will deal with chargebacks and so on. Every facet of a proper scalable business needs planning.

This of course depends on whether you are interested in developing a business, or just a replacement for a job. There is a big difference. Lots of people do the latter: they are self employed and earn something broadly similar to what they could make working for someone else, but have the risk and satisfaction of "being their own boss". This generates income but hardly ever accumulates capital value. If you want a business that will achieve value (and make you well off) then it must be scaleable. My perspective on business is to employ people to do the work, grow the business to scale and then sell it for its capital value and future growth potential that others think they can exploit or integrate. I am not interested in salary - I am interested in building up a business to sell, not products to sell.

I make this point because it is crucial they you are clear form the outset what it is you are trying to achieve. To put it in context my uncle is a very skilled painter and decorator. He was also a college lecturer on this subject. He ran a business with his brother for 40 years and they sometimes had a few staff. He earned his living from it but when he wanted to retire the business was worthless. This is because it was all about him: he and his brother were always on the tools and once they were gone there was nothing of substance left. So be clear whether you are a carpenter or a businessman and choose your path. Good luck in any event.

Very constructive post it's easy to overlook this aspect of it and concentrate on the here and now. I do want a business but I need to crawl before I walk can't even think about selling yet should it take off. the e commerce bit is something that I would probably leave to a specialist or at least get specific advice from a pro. there is a lot I need to do In most areas

Regards

 

[AJB Temple]

Just picking up on things. I agree PayPal is easy (and expensive). It may very well suit the small business. You need to bear in mind that PayPal operates out of Luxembourg for financial regulation and is not in any sense the same as a UK bank. It loads protection in favour of buyers when disputes arise. If you can go to the trouble of set up, Sage Pay works quite well. We probably put about £5 million per annum of investment business (incoming) through it and it is OK. Personal experience is that older consumers are often still extremely wary of on-line funds transfer.

I think the Consumer Rights Act 2015 is something of a game changer for e-commerce. You need to be clear about what rights the consumer has to cancel contracts and return goods without cost or penalty. Savvy consumers will utilise these rights to their advantage and in many ways this has increased the risk for sellers of on-line sales. This can be partially mitigated, but requires you to be smart in developing your terms of business and general business arrangements. As I said, I don't work in the wood game, but I do buy practically everything on-line. I recently bought tow oak kitchen stools with leather seats. Sold as being suitable for commercial use. I could not hope to make them for the price. One arrived damaged in that two oak rails had fractured tenon joints (one was actually badly made) at a leg. Supplier initially tried to make a fuss, demanded we pay for return etc. CRA 2015 is a killer in these circumstances. Credit card company immediately cancelled the transaction when I complained. Eventual outcome was that supplier provided another pair of chairs and I got to keep the old ones as the cost of them getting them back to HQ was too much for them. (Easy repair job for me). The reason I make this point is that you have four extra risks: product must be tough enough to withstand shipping / quality control is fundamental (or it comes back at your cost) / distributors damaging furniture can be a big problem and they will move heaven and earth to deny liability / so don't treat robust packaging as a trivial expense. Business planning again.

That said, I think e-commerce is fantastic and I encourage you to embrace it.

 

[AJB Temple]

On the point "can't even think about selling yet in case it takes off" actually sums up the difference in my attitude from yours. I don't even think about doing the business (excluding one off speculative deals) unless a) I think I can scale it and b) I have planned an exit route. Both attributes are fundamental to me. In essence this is because I see the business as my product, not what it actually does. I know this comes across as cold. If I could find a vocational thing that made me really happy and made me well off, then I would do that. I have always enjoyed making stuff, but I know perfectly well I can't really make much money from it so I do other things to pay the bills and have a workshop just for fun. Woodwork is more of a vocation for many small businesses and I respect that choice. The trade off tends to be lower income and other sacrifices. Don't be put off though - it is better to follow our dreams. But better still to try to make a business worth something as well.

 

[lurker]

Just a quick comment about Pay pal: I refuse to use this in any shape or form, so as a consumer if thats the sellers payment option they have lost me straight away.
I don't think I'm the only one who thinks like this.

 

[mind_the_goat]

Interesting thread containing lots of advice from people sharing their own experiences, I think this will have been useful to people other than the OP. I do get a bit baffled by the people who seem to get offended by things said in what generally has been a rational and open discussion. A few of the replies appear to be personal attacks, why ?. consider that a rhetorical question, I don;t wish to send this discussion off on another direction.
The 'issue' that really caught my attention was the discussion about high margins, I found this interesting because my partner who works in the outdoor education market recently attended an industry conference and came back with the feeling that many people in that industry struggling to keep going but struggle with the concept of charging more. I have no problem with someone making a living charging what they think is fair, in fact I have a lot respect for those people, but I also have respect for others who who take advantage of an opportunity. This is a very different thing to taking advantage of a customer. I don;t have quite so much respect for those who are supposedly happy with their own business and income but object to others who may be more ambitious. If a customer gets what they asked for at a price they agreed to, and were happy with, then everyone wins. If the customer in not happy they could have refused the quote, or negotiated. Maybe making this item enabled the company to employee another person, or give a bonus to the staff, or take his kids on holiday. Who are we to judge?.
There are a lot threads on this subject, often someone finding some 'overpriced' 'low quality' item on ebay and moaning that's it's too expensive. I take a more positive message from these posts, I think maybe I could make a bit of money selling stuff, and maybe that's where this thread started.
Paul, I wish you luck, hope it works out for you.