Advice on brads req.

[sunnybob]

I'm in unexplored territory here. The plans for this monster dolls house I am going to build are all in "american" and I need a translation.
The plans require all the panels to be put together with glue and what they call;

"1 1/4" wire brads #16"

I have never used this kind of fixing before and need to know what does that translate into that I can buy in the UK?
Also, the plans call for pilot holes and hammering these in. Is that right? Dont I need an electric gun to sink these through 2 layers of 12 mm ply? There are a few 100 to insert.
Or is there an easier way?
ta muchly.

 

[MikeG.]

They sound like 30mm panel pins to me. I'd be cautious about using a nailer for them, though, on a small project. Nailers can be a bit brutal.

 

[sunnybob]

As I read through more of this instruction book of over 200 pages, I'm finding more of these "brads" with different lengths and numbers after the hash sign. Would these be a wire gauge?

Glad I dont need a nailer, I would have to add that cost to the build.

 

[dynax]

FWIW, i make the framework of my railway baseboards with 12mm ply, and they are glued and brad nailed with 50mm 18g brads from an air nailer, use on max setting to sink the heads, i just take my time to ensure good position of nailer before firing,

 

[sunnybob]

As I say, I dont really want to buy a nailer purely on cost. I dont have any air compressor stuff, so I would have to buy electric which I believe from reading can be a bit disappointing.

Are these brads what I would call "small nails"? do they have heads, or they just wire?

 

[dynax]

TBH, the term brads covers a variety of nails, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brad+ ... 80&bih=654,

but for simplicity it looks as though it implies what we would refer to as panel pins, given the instructions say to drill pilot holes, which using a nailer would serve no purpose,

 

[sunnybob]

I understand panel pins =D>
And the length is self explanatory.

But i'm still slightly unclear of the numbers after the hash sign. When you buy panels pins, are there different thicknesses for the same length? or does the length stipulate what the diameter is?

 

[dynax]

i would imagine refers to gauge size, but any fine panel pin should be adequate, i would also be inclined to angle them alternately eg / \ / \ , just helps keep the joint together, might also be easier to drill with a dremel or flexi shaft on a drill,

 

[Lons]

It's unlikely the thickness is an issue Bob I would just buy standard wire panel pins from the usual sources. I use all types from 10 mm to 40 mm and they're sized accordingly. I don't usually drill pilot holes unless the wood is thin and prone to splitting but going through 24 mm ply you might find the longer pins bend if you don't hit them squarely, holding the pin with pliers stops that happening.
I also use veneer pins which are much thinner and less obtrusive when necessary but doubt you'll split that ply with standard panel pins unless close to the edge into edge grain .

 

[sunnybob]

I think I have it now. This guy seems to be a bit too detailed and all these hash signs and numbers had me worried.
Its a very basic construction, 12 mm ply panels at 90 degrees to each other, with the joints glued and pinned (after drilling pilot holes) so I would need 25 or maybe 30 mm pins wouldnt I?

If I do get approval on the costing this will be the biggest toy I have ever built.

 

[worn thumbs]

After reading this thread I can see how Americans must be baffled after learning all these esoteric terms-not to mention describing nails in penny terms-to find a set of metric drawings.Never mind the truth that if they pick a 4X2 from a rack it will be a good bit smaller than that.It goes a bit further than two nations separated by a common tongue,ways of working enter into things too.

 

[sunnybob]

I asked on an american forum, just to double check.
Yes, that number refers to the thickness of the wire used.
The man was just being too specific on the plans.
Thanks all.

 

[AES]

+1 for the hash nos being SWG. A couple or 3 tips if this is new territory for you:

1. Although at 12mm the ply is quite thick, IMO it's a helluva lot easier to pin if you pilot drill with a small drill (1mm or so) first. A Dremel or similar is ideal, but a normal battery drill will do. You stand a lot better chance of driving the pins in vertically (or at alternate angles as suggested above) with pilot holes.

2. Most panel pins and veneer pins have heads. Assuming you'll be painting the walls (or brickpaper or something) before driving the pins lay then flat on the anvil (or w.h.y.) and give a couple of taps with the hammer to flatten the heads on one axis before driving them. The heads will then virtually disappear into the outer surface but still grip well. Therefore absolute minimal filler/none required to cover the pin heads

3. Don't know if you've got one, but I bet Axi have - a "Push Pin"? Consists of a nice rounded off handle with a telescopic shaft, outer spring loaded. The inner shaft has a magnet inside which holds the pin while you line it up with the hole. Then a hand push is enough to drive the pin home. A LOT easier than hitting consistently with the hammer, no chance of damaging the outer surface, and with pilot holes, easy to drive into 12mm ply. And with a bit of practice it's a LOT quicker than you'd think too (with a dolls house this size I bet you'll have LOTS of pins to drive)!

HTH

 

[sunnybob]

Item 1;
yes. the book states to drill pilot holes for all pins. I have a dremel and even a stanley hand drill (egg whisk type) so thats all under control.
in your item 2;
Do you mean to hammer the heads sideways? Sounds feasible, but with the amount this thing needs very time consuming.
Item 3;
sounds good but I dont want to buy a lot of tools i wont use again because the cost will come out of the very small profit I'm hoping to make. i have suitable drifts to push the heads in.
Thanks

 

[AES]

Re 2, sunnybob. Yup, hammer sideways. No where as time consuming as you'd think, especially if you line a dozen or so up on the anvil at a time with sticky tape. And MUCH quicker than filling head holes, then rubbing the filler back down to get a smooth surface.

Re 3, OK, understood, but it IS a cheapo tool (just a few bob - sorry!!). I have one which I use only seldom and nothing on for it right now (AFAIK!). PM me your address and I'll send it to you - it goes in a Jiffy Bag. You send back when finished with. MUCH, much easier than driving all those pins by hammer and risk free (I don't doubt your hand skill but if you're anything like me you'll mis-drive a few and end up with hammer hits on the visual faces and/or bent pins)!

Up to you.

Edit for P.S: "Drifts" OK (I hope you mean pin punches - with a depression on the driven end - but a push pin MUCH better - my experience.

 

[sunnybob]

No, I mean drifts.
I have mentioned I am new to woodworking. A whole tool cabinet filled with metal working stuff, almost nothing specifically for wood.

The offer is very tempting thanks. But with my every 2 weeks postal delivery (4 weeks if it misses a stage) it could well get here after I'm finished. :roll: #-o
I can find a workaround, thats what I'm famous for. =D> =D>

 

[AES]

No, I mean drifts.


Oh, good luck with that then!

Not sure what the work around would be - how about 2 metal tubes (brass?) or a rod about the same dia as the biggests pins, and with a close fitting tube (longer than the rod) simply soldered/sweated onto the rod. Biggest "job" in my experience - and I'm not too bad with a hammer - is accurately driving quite thin pins (in relation to their dia) vertically/at pre-set angles time after time after time, without bending the pin and/or damaging the viewed surface.

Good luck (this thread reminds me of the old Irish joke about "How do I get to X?" "Well I wouldn't start from here"

 

[sunnybob]

challenges keep my mind alive :shock: 8)