Norton 3X Grinding Wheels

[Philly]

Hi Folks
Sharpening is a subject close to woodworkers hearts - there is no ignoring it. And I'm pretty sure every one of us has at some time tried using a bench grinder to grind a fresh bevel on a chisel or plane iron. This usually ends up with a "blued" edge . Result - I ruined tool.
The alternatives are using stones (real slow to remove serious amounts of steel) or wet grinders like the Tormek (slow, messy and expensive). I've dreamed of the day I could quickly and safely grind a fresh bevel on a tool. And that day has arrived!!
Konrad Sauer mentioned a new product from Norton on his blog, the 3X grinding wheels. He said that you could safely grind edge tools without fear of burning the steel - if it impressed Konrad then I was interested! So I spent a while with Google trying to track one down - no luck. But a conversation with Mike Hancock at Classic Hand Tools revealed he had just taken a delivery of them. Needless to say, the credit card was out in a flash........

So what do you get? Just a regular looking (apart from the light blue colour) grinding wheel. I bought the 6 inch diameter, 1 inch wide wheel in coarse grit. Price was £36. It came complete with different size inserts so should fit most bench grinders out there. It took just two minutes to remove the old wheel and fit the new - simple. A quick true-up with a devil stone and I was off.

I used a spare 6mm thick iron to test the new wheel. The new wheel cuts fast, real fast! But it barely heated the steel at all - after every pass I felt the cutting edge to check the temperature and it never reached an uncomfortable level. The wheel just removes steel at an impressive rate! I managed to grind a fresh 25 degree bevel on this iron in just a couple minutes (I was being cautious) and it coped no problem, leaving a neat and accurate hollow bevel.
I then ran a few chisels through it - quick, and with no heat problems! I was surprised by how simple it was to grind an accurate and square bevel. I am so used to using the various jigs on the Tormek to set things up and grind away - this was real liberating to reach the same result but in a fraction of the time.

So - a new era in sharpening? For me, yes! This grinding wheel is the answer to woodworkers dreams. You can quickly and safely grind edge tools with no fear of ruining the steel.
Cheers
Philly

 

[Rich]

Philly, is that the finished edge in the last pic? and what is a devil stone?
probably mundane questions, but I'm learning and sharpening seems to have so many avenues that I don't know which one to go down.
regards,
Rich.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Many thanks, Phil - that's really helpful. I hate using my high-speed grinder because of the burning problem but if that wheel is as good as you say it is, I might just get one.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Philly]

Rich
The edge in the last picture is straight off the wheel - I now will hone this edge on my waterstones to give me the final, sharpened edge.
A devil stone is for truing up grinding wheels - you can also get diamond truing stones.
Paul
It is just fantastic! It works how it should work. I'm in heaven...... :roll: :lol:
Cheers
Philly

 

[PowerTool]

Rich - this is a devil stone - used to clean the face of grinding wheels.

Andrew (p.s. - Philly types faster... :lol: )

 

[Karl]

Nice one Phil - that looks very interesting. I do get fed up with quenching my blade in a bucket of water when using my standard "cool running" white wheel. May have to invest....

Do you know if they do a 40mm one?

Cheers

Karl

 

[Rich]

Andrew, thanks for the link, all becomes clearer.

Philly, I see in the final pic that the back edge is concave, will you flatten this on your wetstone, I have one but don't really know if I'm getting the full potential out of it, it's an old aptc one but it goes well,(I think)have you made a vid on how to sharpen?
Rich.

 

[Fecn]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to write the review - I don't use my grinder much, but I know what to buy now when it needs some new wheels.

 

[CHJ]

Philly, are the Norton 3X wheels Ceramic? I have been using a blue ceramic from Peter Childs for some time, the only reservation I have with it is the speed with which it removes metal compared with a standard Ally Oxide stone, caution needed and definitely no pressure applied unless you have a perverse need to spend money on new steel.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the Tormek system does not have an option for a coarse stone or diamond drum of the same diameter to run in place of the honing wheel when tool reshaping is required.

 

[gidon]

Thanks for the review Philly - I've toyed with getting one of these before - is this the same thing:?
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/4677
I'm sure I've seen it given the thumbs up by someone else too but can't remember who ...
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Philly]

Thanks Andrew :wink:
Karl, no I think 1 inch is the widest. It isn't as big an issue as you might think though - it cuts so fast that its simple to grind a wide iron square. Almost like re-discovering an old skill....... :roll: :lol:
Chas - Here's some info I found....

"Controlled micro fracturing of the wheel grain of Norton 3X wheels provides a constant, sharp supply of patented SG (ceramic alumina) grain cutting points. This superior performance product has the highest wheel life, and combines an exceptionally fast cut rate with burn free grinding."

The more I use the wheel the more confident I become - I still haven't got a blade hot enough to sizzle water (and that's after trying on a scrap blade!)
The Tormek system is a good one but messy, slow and soooo expensive for what it is. I've been glad to have one in the workshop but I can see it may be gathering a nice coat of dust in the near future. :wink:
Cheers
Philly

 

[CHJ]

Thanks for that link Gidon, you answered my question to Philly, looked at the Norton site but could not confirm the 'ceramic' bit.

I note elsewhere comments about needing to dress these stones, in my experience the only time dressing is needed is if you abuse them enough to groove the surface, mine never glazes as the fine ceramic particles shed if they blunt.

EDIT: Thanks Phil, basically the same info. got with mine from peter childs. I fitted it back in May 2005

 

[Philly]

Forgot to mention - the wheel is 46 grit, the coarsest they make.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Phil, just the job - and coincidentally the exact same bench grinder I use, so I know which one to order

Nice name dropping too :wink: :lol:

It begs the question 'what use is a torkek outside of honing turner's chisels?'. I have tried wet grinders and they remove metal so slowly as to frustrate to the point of real anger, and they don't sharpen as well as a standard waterstone.

Dry grinding blues edges - though this is my preferred method these days.

This 3M seems like it might be the ideal compromise to me.

 

[OPJ]

Thanks for this, Philly - I managed to successfully burn ALL the edges of my tools a few weeks ago on a white wheel. Looks like this is exactly what I need.

I have an 8" Record Power grinder though - do they also sell an 8" wheel or would I be able to use a 6" wheel?

 

[paulm]

It begs the question 'what use is a torkek outside of honing turner's chisels?'

Apart from doing my turning gouges etc I use mine for sharpening the kitchen knives a couple of times a year, making blades for marking knives from old jigsaw or bandsaw blades, cutting pins for marking gauges from masonry nails, a whole host of things really.

Have never really just used it for plane blades or chisels, though it's good for redefining a damaged bevel without losing a load of steel.

Wouldn't have tried to use it for making a primary bevel from nowt though, that would just be silly and take forever :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do like the sound of those cool cutting wheels though, very useful all the same.

Cheers, Paul.

 

[woden]

Thought I'd resuscitate this interesting thread.

I've been pondering over getting one of these coarse grit Norton 3X wheels. However, in doing a bit of research I came across this other wheel they produce - the Norton SG.

From the marketing spiel on that site the SG seems to be Norton's premium ceramic grinding wheel. Plus, it's more expensive than the 3X which must mean it's superior!:roll: Well, according to the standards of our capitalist society at any rate! :wink:

Has anyone tried the Norton SG?

 

[gidon]

This is from the Norton catalogue:

Premium 3X Blue Wheels
• Superior performance product with highest wheel life,
exceptionally fast cut rate and burn free grinding
• Constant supply of sharp cutting points with Norton’s
patented SG grain (ceramic alumina)
• Ideal for hollow grinding plane blades and chisels

Looks to me as though 3X is just marketing speak for wheels that use this "SG grain"? But I could be wrong!

I bought one of these wheels and whilst it is an improvement over my 36 grit grey I didn't find it that much of an improvement. You still need to be careful - especially when you get close to the cutting edge.

Cheers

Gidon

 

[andyavast]

After saving up over a few months I recantly bought a Tormek T7. It came with the hand tool kit (knife, axe, scissors and small tool jig). I have used it a couple of times now, and yes it is a revelation in comparison to the diabolical bench grinder i used before... it runs cool and so quiet, however I feel the same as philly and tony, it is painfully slow (and ruddy messy) which becomes very frustrating especially when reworking a bevel, or getting rid of a nick in a roughing chisel.

I can totally understand why a woodturner or carver would want the machine but I am starting to seriously doubt it's worth to me :shock:

I am seriously considering getting rid of my Tormek now and buying a decent, cheap bench grinder with one of these Norton wheels. Bill Carter, Konrad Sauer and Philly to name a few all claim to have had their lives changed by this grinding wheel, that is reason enough to try them out.

 

[Harbo]

I have one of these Blue Nortons (a coarse one) and it is great for the fast removal of steel. It is coarse though and needs a fair bit of honing to get a good polished edge. It's main use is really for grinding a new profile.
I still use my Tormek for general use as it needs much less work afterwards.
The Norton is great for removing dings etc. or for grinding new bevel angles.

Rod