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Woden W4 Plane, tote loose and stuck simultaneously

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Sampepps

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Hello all,
I have just purchased a Woden W4 plane and am struggling with the tote. It is quite loose, you can wiggle it at least 2mm from the sole, but at the same time I cannot get it fully free to fix it.

My questions are do the woden planes have a different tote mechanism and if not, can anybody recommend a solution to removing it fully?

I can remove the brass nut to reveal the long screw but this doesn't affect its loose/stuck-ness. I'd rather not use force if possible. I have put some wd40 down the tote and let it sit - this hasn't helped.

Appreciate all help.
Thanks.
 

Vann

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Does the tote have a glued crack? sometimes the glue used to join two halves gets onto the long stud.

Cheers, Vann.
 

AndyT

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It's quite likely that the plane has been used with the handle loose and the rod has got bent.
I'd try making a pair of slender wedges, with central slots to clear the boss that the rod screws into. Insert them from either side and tap, to push the handle up away from the body.

This page confirms that the body has a little cast peg forward of the boss, which sticks up into the handle.
http://wodentools.com/steelnutbenchplanes.html

Knowing this may help you wiggle it the right way.
 

ED65

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Frog off? If you're trying to do it with the frog in place I've had it be impossible to remove a rear handle (tote is an Americanism if that matters to you) but once the frog was out of the way it could be done, albeit still awkwardly most of the time.

I think it's fairly likely Andy is correct and the rod is bent. There is a small chance the hole itself is partly to blame. Apparently these aren't always straight due to being drilled from both ends and the alignment of the two operations wasn't good, but it can be from the wood warping over time.

In either case the handle needs to go through a bit of a contortion to come off (rotating as it's being lifted) and the frog can get in the way of that.
 

Sampepps

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Thanks all- no glued crack I could see, it was clear of the cast peg and the frog was off so I tried the wedges, but that wasn't enough to get it free. I did try twisting as suggested and after cracking the base, it did come free at the expense of the rear handle (good to know tote is an americanism).

Once off it was clear that it had indeed been bent drastically, looks like I'll need to find another thread and more than likely make another handle in time.
Appreciate your help
 

AndyT

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If the rod was soft enough to bend, it's easy to straighten out again.
The thread at the ends might be a hard one to match, if Woden copied Stanley, like other makers did.
Squeeze it in a vice or hammer it straight on a block of wood.
 

Vann

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AndyT":2vmcpfts said:
...The thread at the ends might be a hard one to match, if Woden copied Stanley, like other makers did...
It will probably depend on the era. WS Tools used BSW & BSF threads, so an early Woden probably has the same. Record era Woden planes probably used Record threads - and Record copied Stanley threads :roll:

Cheers, Vann.
 

Phil Pascoe

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Sometimes the hole in the sole gets a bit of gunge in it which stops the rod going dead to the bottom, which may not cause the problem but doesn't help. I've not come across a plane that needed the frog removing to take the handle off, but some do require the the handle to be turned as it comes off/goes on to clear the lateral lever. I've had a couple that needed (for some reason, maybe bad machining or just distortion of the wood) a couple of washers under the brass nut for the handle to go properly dead.
I have one much used plane with the rod stuck into the sole with JB Weld as the thread on both
the rod and the sole were damaged. - how many of these thing are actually collectable? :D
 

Orraloon

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As Andy said have a go at straitening the rod. I would hammer it on a block of wood avoiding the threads of course. Does not have to be perfect as you dont see it with the handle on. If you post a pic of the handle damage there may be help for that too. A new clean crack should be fixable.
Regards
John
 

nabs

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I once had to shorten the rod on a Record plane to get it to hold the handle tight. Not sure why it was needed - perhaps he handle was replaced at some point and was not an exact fit.

ED65":2upk8xr6 said:
tote is an Americanism if that matters to you.
as is often the case when we believe the Americans are Cucumbering about with the language it turns out they are simply persisting with older English usage that has fallen out of fashion here. This is the case for "tote" - see e.g Moxon (1703):
 

Vann

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nabs":1vh5kbne said:
...as is often the case when we believe the Americans are Cucumbering about with the language it turns out they are simply persisting with older English usage that has fallen out of fashion here. This is the case for "tote" - see e.g Moxon (1703):...
Phew, I can continue to use the term. I like the word "tote" but dislike Americanisms (hammer)

Cheers, Vann.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I dislike Americanisms and the word "tote". :D
I had one that wouldn't pull down dead, the nut was going well below the surface on the wood - I got away with putting two or three washers under it.
If someone had replaced a handle with one slightly shorter the thread on the rod would be too short and the nut would sit proud of the woodwork. Sometimes the rod isn't screwed into the sole fully which can also make the rod seem too long.
 

ED65

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Americanism is about use, not origin.

OED: a word, expression, or other feature that is characteristic of American English.
Chambers: a word, phrase, custom, etc that is characteristic of Americans.

I don't know why we would want to consciously use outdated terms for things. Shall we start talking about rubbing the bezel when we need to whet our tool? Oo arr.
 

Osvaldd

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I had a hand plane with a handle loose and stuck simultaneously, it ended in disaster.
 

thetyreman

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I would try tapping a new thread if possible and making a new rod that's slightly thicker then make a new handle, I made a handle for two of my planes and they're actually much better and more comfortable than anything stock stanley, you can get free templates from lee valley, might be worth the effort, also you can shape it to your exact hand shape.
 

Sampepps

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Not been able to straighten the rod yet but I'll have a more patient try tomorrow.

Forum page not letting me post the picture bit the resultant tote/rear handle crack is round the base. It goes vertical for 10mm or so then horizontal round the bottom - probably not fatal but not ideal!
 

Vann

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ED65":367fb3l8 said:
...I don't know why we would want to consciously use outdated terms for things. Shall we start talking about rubbing the bezel when we need to whet our tool? Oo arr.
Arr, arr. I like olde expressions :wink: . When using a 100 year olde plane what's wrong with using 100 year old terms? (hammer)

Okay, so a WS plane is likely to be only 60-70 years old - but I have a Stanley of that age. It's a US Stanley, so can I use Americanisms to describe it?

My tuppence* worth.

Cheers, Vann.

* tuppence - I use this term often, but relishing its use in this post :)
 

ED65

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Sampepps":23qpgli5 said:
Not been able to straighten the rod yet but I'll have a more patient try tomorrow.
Easy enough to do so if you're nervous don't be. It is possible to get a badly bent rod back to virtually perfect with patience, but there's no need to be too anal about this as a slight remaining bend usually doesn't matter.

Fixing a pronounced bend may be best started with the rod held in a vice, the threads protected from crushing as may be needed obviously. Once you're down to a more modest bend careful tapping with a hammer (heavier hammer useful here but not essential) on the high spot with the rod on a flat surface will do the rest.

Sampepps":23qpgli5 said:
Forum page not letting me post the picture bit the resultant tote/rear handle crack is round the base. It goes vertical for 10mm or so then horizontal round the bottom - probably not fatal but not ideal!
Clean breaks in wood are almost never fatal. If the parts mesh together neatly just your normal wood glue, and firm clamping, will do the job nicely. Remembering that it is true that good glue joints are stronger than the wood itself.

If the joint is a bit gappy for whatever reason it's often best to rely on epoxy.

Either way you can reinforce with thin dowels or pins if you want to be extra sure the repair holds.
 

custard

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nabs":2noyltos said:
I once had to shorten the rod on a Record plane to get it to hold the handle tight. Not sure why it was needed - perhaps he handle was replaced at some point and was not an exact fit.]
More likely the handle shrunk, it's cross grain so as it shrinks it becomes shorter, which in turn makes the threaded rod too long.

It's a very common problem, filling off a whisker from the threaded rod usually sorts it out.
 
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