What is the most chatoyant wood?

[raffo]

This test is in our to-do list. The only issue is that planing is an art in itself, and I definitely do not master it.
Would you be up for supplying a planed sample, whose chatoyance we will measure "as received" and then after sanding to various grits?
Just 1.75*5*1/2" is enough, and it should be some chatoyant wood (walnut, maple, sapele, bubinga, the list is very long).
I would expect that chatoyance after planing is similar to chatoyance after some very high grit sanding.

Sure, I'll find a few pieces. PM me to sort out details.

 

[chatometry]

Often it will, depending on direction. this blank is pretty large and should have much to spare. these are pre-sawn and sold here so the larger ones often labeled for larger guitars, but then sold for the same or similar price as smaller, so I usually just have more wood to discard.

If you feel like supporting us with some samples just let me know

I'm more curious re: what raffo mentioned - what change sanding vs. planing would have, but think that with french polish, I could not tell without doing a dozen test pieces on the same blank. The difference in finish absorption is pretty large on a planed vs. sanded finish in that shellac will build almost from the first coat on a planed surface, but sanded will absorb quite a bit - this is far different vs. what you're testing, though.

All I can tell you for now is that chatoyance seems to increase as you increase sanding grit, and this is also carried on the finished piece. Recently we sanded a black walnut piece to 10'000-grit (which obviously isn't cost-effective for you) and the results were impressive (see Progressive grit sanding – PZC Chatometry , scroll to the bottom of the page, after the Iroko section). Plus just three coats of shellac gave a mirror-like surface, while on a 240-grit surface 5 coats didn't get even close...
The practical question is: can you "plane" a body, or will it necessarily have to be sanded?

Paolo
Edit: there was no effort to fill the pores dyring this test. Could it be done with epoxy?

 

[D_W]

You could definitely fill the pores with epoxy. George Wilson mentioned to me that he did most of his later guitar pore filling with quick setting epoxy and then not letting it fully set, but rather sanding it back just as it was right before fully hardening. Obviously, it becomes very hard to sand if it is allowed to set on a surface.

I will probably have some wood for you. I haven't decided a guitar for this blank, but I could cut my largest pattern out of it and still have enough to send you a sample.

I've done limited A/B comparisons and usually with something like curly cherry, so for a very thin finish, it definitely pays off to plane (which will do something similar to fine sanding - not identical, but similar), but when I have done a full french polish, I don't quite know as much as the wood I've used is like the test piece here. It will show itself off no matter what and there is so much variation that it becomes hard to tell.

this piece is one of the more difficult planing pieces that I've come across, too (hand planing).

I am on board with you in one sense, though - whether you sand to microfine paper or I plane to get to the same point, it is far nicer putting oil and the first bits of shellac directly into it and having it build immediately. Even more so if the finish is going to be very simple, like two coats of shellac and a hard wax buff.

 

[chatometry]

I will probably have some wood for you. I haven't decided a guitar for this blank, but I could cut my largest pattern out of it and still have enough to send you a sample.

Take your time, there's no rush at all!

To provide some reference, most wood species average between 10 PZC (slightly visible chatoyance) and 20 PZC (evident chatoyance). Khaya is above 21, Koa is above 26.
That is, after 1500-grit sanding and no finish.
Adding finish allows to go above 30 PZC on some wood species, and even (almost) 40 PZC.
We saw 33 PZC on an epoxy-finished Khaya sample.

This chessboard is made of 1 wood only (apart from the sides), and what you see as dark and light squares is just the effect of a ~35 PZC surface!

 

[chatometry]

Some news after sanding a few samples to 10'000-grit. That is, this insanely high grit provides a significant improvement on chatoyance! And this is also true if sanding is followed by shellac coating.

Full detail here:
https://www.chatometry.com/ultra-fine-sanding/
Paolo

 

[Droogs]

That Spanish Cedar is like a bar or gold, truly beautiful effect

The ABW also really highlights just how much silica is in it. Almost snowing as the light passes

 

[D_W]

Some news after sanding a few samples to 10'000-grit. That is, this insanely high grit provides a significant improvement on chatoyance! And this is also true if sanding is followed by shellac coating.

Full detail here:
https://www.chatometry.com/ultra-fine-sanding/
Paolo

Reminds me of planing or planing, scraping and then scraping with a dull thin scraper that has no damage on it. There is some life to the surface, but without really good pictures, it's hard to show it.

And as I mentioned either here or somewhere else, my wife refers to wood with chatoyance or figure as "wood that I finished with the dirt still on it".



There are three cabinets that I made from relatively low cost cherry. At the time i started them, I thought sanding them to 320 would help them look "more factory", which was what I was aiming for. In the end, I'd wished I'd planed and scraped them if necessary with scraping - it would've taken a lot less time and I'd have ingested less dust. The amount of padding on shellac to be ready for the topcoat would've been 1/3rd.

No kidding, my wife's first comment was "why would you put finish on them without cleaning the dirt off?".

The wood doesn't match or anything, it was just "run of the mill" left over from my lumber guy at the time. Unfortunately, he retired. He knew this was a little better than normal, but it was $3 a board foot. The sides are ply (the outsides on both ends are also raised panel, but the side facing is ply). Surprisingly, the ply was sawn so that it "has a lot of dirt", too.

The wood does have a little bit of chatoyance. For a short period of time, I kind of liked to walk into the kitchen and look at it, but it has darkened over time as cherry does and we all stop paying attention to things we see several times a day.

 

[chatometry]

Nice cabinets indeed! Even "just" cherry, in the right hands, can turn into amazing stuff.
And it's a relatively low-chatoyance wood with - as you mentioned - a relatively rough sanding. I wonder what your wife's comment would be if that figure were on super-sharply planed spanish cedar!

@Droogs yes, after this work I will surely make use of some spanish cedar!