Thinking about building a workshop/large shed

[KevB]

Hi guys

I'm Kev from Whitburn, Tyne and Wear. Thanks for having me on board.What it is, I'm hoping to make a start on building a large shed/workshop in my back garden sometime this year.

First of all I have no experience whatsoever with this idea and I was hoping for some (lots rather lol) of advice on whether or not I will be able to achieve it, or even afford it. My dad is a builder and he would be helping me, though I would like to have a go at most things myself with him overlooking me.

My budget at the moment is only a few hundred quid, so I have a lot of saving to do :roll: . I was thinking around 5x2.5 meters with a height of 2.5 meters at the highest point. Maybe a little smaller if the floor area turns out to be slightly to large for building regs. A flat felted slopping roof, with a base made of flagstones (which I already have). Shiplap cladding for the outside and some sort of insulation in the walls, etc.

My plan is to use half of the shed to put my weights bench in and the other half as a small area whereas I can have a go at making picnic tables etc for our garden. There will be no machinery or anything like that going in, just mainly hand tools.

I would like the building to be fairly sturdy and look ok, though I'll always be on a budget with this, meaning I won't be able to afford the best materials.

Could any of you guys give me any idea as to how much this may roughly cost? And whether or not any members here have built something similar whilst keeping costs at a minimum?

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great : )

 

[Myfordman]

There is a superb thread as a sticky at the top of this page to start with.

Also over in another forum there is this one
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198

Good luck

 

[artie]

If you are on a budget you might want to consider building it to minimise waste. multiples of 2.44 to suit plywood sheets etc.

 

[wallace]

One method to keep costs down would be to use reclaimed materials. You can get joists pretty cheap if you don't mind de nailing, sometimes the timber is of better quality than new stuff. I built a wendy house for my daughter and to save money and effort I only shiplapped the front that could be seen and used plywood and felt for the back. To panel inside you could use conti board. Theres a place in darlington that sells seconds. The sheets are big 6' by 10' I think. He sells them on ebay for £10 sheet

 

[Matt@]

be careful where you situate it. If made from combustible materials it must be 1 metre from boundray as i understand it. Plenty of people flout this though by putting timber sheds up against neighbours fence or wall etc

 

[Wizard9999]

be careful where you situate it. If made from combustible materials it must be 1 metre from boundray as i understand it. Plenty of people flout this though by putting timber sheds up against neighbours fence or wall etc

Building regs state within 1m of the boundary and more than 15m2 it must be non-combustable. At 5m x 2.5m it is well below 15m2.

Terry.

 

[KevB]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

Myfordman - Do you mean Steve's Workshop thread? And thanks for the link, will check it out..though it looks like he must have spent a fortune on that project lol.

Thanks for that artie, sounds like a wise idea.

Good ideas Wallace. I'm definitely up for using reclaimed materials for the parts that aren't really seen, the internal structure etc. Will have a look out for that seller on ebay.

Doing a little research a few days ago, I understand that my plans would fall within building regs. I'd like to build it as close to our back fence as possible, meaning I would stay within the 2.5meter max height and 15m2 floor area.

I work in a sheet metal manufacturing company and we're always getting wooden pallets in of various sizes. 4x2, 3x1.5, 2.5x1.25 and 2x1 meters. The wood is usually in good/really good condition. Is this wood any good for framing the structure? I dismantled two 4x2 pallets the other day and I ended up with 14 lengths at 4m long, the wood is in really good nick. I was quite excited at the thought of beginning my free wood collection, though after seeing some of the wood you guys are using, I'm just not sure whether it will be any good for the job?

I do like the idea of felting the back and two sides (or at least the back) to minimise the cost of cladding.

I was thinking of maybe building the back and front as module sections. Two sections, put together on the ground and then bolted together around 2.5m2 or to suit the standard board sizes. Then the two ends the same again - 2.5m2. Would this be a good idea? As a complete amateur, in my mind it seems like this would be the easiest way lol.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be much appreciated

Edit : Sorry, the modules wouldn't be 2.5m in height, they would be closer to 2.2m (I think).

 

[KevB]

Could 7x2 joists be used for the floor as well as the roof? And would the spacing between them be 500mm?

 

[blackrodd]

Could 7x2 joists be used for the floor as well as the roof? And would the spacing between them be 500mm?

If it's any help, this is on Google, plans for different size sheds/workshops.
6" x 2"would span 2.5mtrs, I would have 450mm centres for the floor joists but as the sheeting will 2440mm or imperial 8'x 4' set out accordingly@ 2' centres for the roof and 18" for the floor joists, you will, no doubt find a use for the offcuts.
The pallets you spoke of sound ideal for a strong, workshed, on a budget.
They could be thick and solid and very useful in this venture.


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shed+ ... B802%3B602

HTH Regards Rodders

 

[Wizard9999]

Myfordman - Do you mean Steve's Workshop thread? And thanks for the link, will check it out..though it looks like he must have spent a fortune on that project lol.

No he means Mike G, who no longer posts on this site. But Mike is an architect, so anything he builds is very high quality, to be honest for what you need his methods may not be necessary and the cost prohibitive. Though he did say the other day he has had some recent thoughts on workshops that do not need a concrete base, so he may be worth speaking to.

Doing a little research a few days ago, I understand that my plans would fall within building regs. I'd like to build it as close to our back fence as possible, meaning I would stay within the 2.5meter max height and 15m2 floor area.

Sorry, I think you are confused, height is a planning matter not building regs, at less than 15m2 you will not be hit by building regs wherever you build. Have a look at this link...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permis ... buildings/

But in summary building regs are...

If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation.

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials.

If you stay under 2.5m high and under 30m2 (which is way less than the building regs 15m2) you will not need planning either, as long as you are not in front of you house or have already built over half your garden (see link for more precise wording, but it gives you the idea).

Hope this helps,
Terry.

 

[KevB]

This is the pallet wood I've collected so far. I've been busy de-nailing it all today in between entertaining my little girl There are various lengths - 4m, 3m, 2.5m, 2m and 1m.

Guys does it matter If the thickness of the wood varies (by up to 5mm in some cases)..even from the same length sizes? Some of the thicknesses match, though some don't and I was thinking that maybe the internal boards or the external cladding wouldn't fix to the frame properly if the thicknesses were slightly out?

The 10 lengths to the far left of the image are (or were at the time) brand new and given to my dad by one of his suppliers. They are slightly bowed and or warped though and I'm not sure if they can be used?

Also, will I have to treat this wood with anything before I use it?

Ok thanks for that blackrodd. There was a guy selling those joists that I mentioned (reclaimed and de-nailed) at £7 a length. Will check out some of the plans you linked me to.

Ah right wizzard9999. So if I were to stick to 5x3m with a max height of no more than 2.5m and as close to my back/side fence as I wish..I wouldn't need any permission about anything from anyone? The shed will be way back from the house and I'd be well within the 50% garden/house property coverage.

As always thanks for reading guys

 

[blackrodd]

Nice load of free timber you have there.
Regarding the difference in thickness, either use this as an excuse to get a planer thicknesser and reduce the wood to same size,
Or when you make up panels, say for the back wall, or one side, use the same thickness timber for that area, as long as it's most
economical from you're stocks.
The stuff, on the left, which you mentioned was bent, measure up for say the rafters, and check how straight they would be.
when cut to the right length.
Get some decent S/H windows, door and frame, and then start planning and drawing it out ready for cutting and assembly.
Regards Rodders

 

[Wizard9999]

Ah right wizzard9999. So if I were to stick to 5x3m with a max height of no more than 2.5m and as close to my back/side fence as I wish..I wouldn't need any permission about anything from anyone? The shed will be way back from the house and I'd be well within the 50% garden/house property coverage.

Correct, but don't forget that if you are hard up on the boundary maintenance may be an issue, especially if you were not to get on with the neighbour for any reason.

Terry.

 

[KevB]

Ok thanks for that blackrodd. I'll ask my dad if he has one of those planer thicknesser. Is this a messy and/or noisy job? I'm a little concerned I may upset the neighbours with them having two young children..

Yeah wizard9999, I think I need to put a little more thought into this. The max I want the shed to come into the garden from the back fence is 3m. So do I leave a 500mm gap around the back, sacrificing shed depth or do I go hard up against the fence, keeping my 3m depth hmm..

I think I will keep my current shed as it is and build the large shed in the gap where the playhouse is. There will be a 500mm gap between my current shed and the new shed, with the same gap on the other side. Pretty tight clearance to the sides, though any more and my shed becomes less than 5m in length.

I have a question about overall squareness of the sides etc. Is it critical that everything should be exactly square? I haven't had a good look at the best pieces of wood I have, though I'm not 100% confident that they would be as square or as straight as newly bought wood.

Also, do you think that the free paving slabs/flag stones that I have are the way to go for the base? Or is there a more 'garden friendly', with lighter work method for a shed of this size? That doesn't cost a fortune.

 

[KevB]

Quite like the look and design of this shed. The wood looks like a nice colour. I would probably have the one window each side.

If I used osb board, would it have to be moisture resistant? Also, does there have to be anything between the external cladding and internal framework?

Wickes have 11x1220x2440 osb2 board at 11.99 each (if you buy 3).

 

[MMUK]

The 10 lengths to the far left of the image are (or were at the time) brand new and given to my dad by one of his suppliers. They are slightly bowed and or warped though and I'm not sure if they can be used?

I'd use them as floor joists, the warping won't matter so much but could probably be fairly well straightened using strategically placed noggins

If I used osb board, would it have to be moisture resistant? Also, does there have to be anything between the external cladding and internal framework?

Wickes have 11x1220x2440 osb2 board at 11.99 each (if you buy 3).

I assume you mean OSB to clad the sides and rear? OSB2 is non-structural as really designed for interior use. However, with appropriate treatment it can be used outside. I would recommend using a fence stain from Cuprinol or such like as they soak into the wood. I would be tempted to also use a breathable membrane between the OSB2 and frame - you can get a 50m roll 1m wide for about £30 from Screwifx or Toolstation. If you want to use OSB2 on the roof and are felting, I would really recommend sticking the felt down with BlackJack or similar bitumen adhesive as it will seal the OSB.

 

[RobinBHM]

Id use OSB3, for hardly any extra cost it is quite moisture resistant.

The best construction is (from inside to outside): studwork - osb3 - breathable membrane- tile batten - cladding.

Breathable membrane, such as cromar vent 3 is suitable.

Why the battens? -they introduce a cavity that allows the back of the cladding to breath.

 

[KevB]

Cheers for that MMUK and RobinBHM.

For the price of that membrane I think it would be a wise move for me to use it. With regards to the OSB board, I meant for the interior walls, floor and roof..with some sort of cheap insulation behind it. I wasen't sure whether or not I also had to board the outside of the framework as well? Or would cladding, insulation and the interior OSB be sufficient? With a membrane in there somewhere (inside or outside of framework?).

At the moment I'm trying to draw out the back wall and I have a few questions for you guys in the know

Do the top and bottom plates have to be one continuous length of wood?

I'm thinking about making the framework for the back wall in 3 sections, to suit 4x 2440x1220 sheets. The 3 sections will all be 64'' wide and bolted (or screwed) together. They will have 16'' centres with a double stud at the joins (where the outer sections meet the middle section). I will cut the outer top plate in two halves at 96'' (minus or plus a little of each end to allow for the sides to lock into it).

This way the two halves top plate will overlap the middle section right down the centre.

I haven't really thought about the height of the walls yet. Though I was wondering for the roof. Would say a 4 to 6' difference between the front and back wall be enough of a slope for rain to run off?

 

[Wizard9999]

The best construction is (from inside to outside): studwork - osb3 - breathable membrane- tile batten - cladding.

Surely that should read, from inside to outside: OSB - stud work - membrane - batten - cladding. The OSB acts as a vapour barrier (given high glue content). You can then insulate within the studwork. Membrane is then attached to the studwork with battens on top (as said by Robin) to allow membrane space to breath, before the final outer cladding.

Though I was wondering for the roof. Would say a 4 to 6' difference between the front and back wall be enough of a slope for rain to run off?

This may depend on what you are roofing with, I have used EPDM (brilliant stuff) so can only speak with any certainty for this. Mine has a slope of about 1 in 25 which works just fine. If I recall you mentioned it would be 2.5m front to back, so if 4 inches (I presume you mean inches not feet) that is roughly 100mm over 2.5m, which is 1 in 25, so I would say that would be OK with EPDM.

Terry.

 

[KevB]

Hi guys. I drew the back wall out earlier and I was wondering whether this would be ok?

It's in four sections (to suit 2440x1220 sheets) and bolted (screwed?) together. The top plate is in three sections (cut short at each end to allow the sides to slot in), which overlap the centre sections right down the middle. I've placed the studs at 24' centres. I've also added extra studs to the outside left and right, to allow for the sides to slot in without losing any length to my shed.

What do you think guys..will it work?

I'm thinking that with the various (limited) lengths of wood I have, maybe it will be easier for me to build it in sections like this..and easier to keep it as square as possible. Working with small sections at a time.

Ok cheers wizard9999. It's good to know that the slope will be sufficient. It means that the lowest wall can be at the maximum height within my limits. I think I will probably use felt for the roof as it seems like the cheapest option.

Edit : I haven't added the noggins yet as I need to work out how many I need in each section and at what spacing.