Neff is Naff. Dont buy from them.

[RogerS]

Tearing my hair out as their sheet of 'installation' instructions are a bit like Egyptian hieroglyphics. Couple that with another piece of paper that contradicts the first and you're screwed.

Now factor in NAFF's customer service. 'We can't give you that information due to Health and Safety. We can only advise that you go and speak to an installer'. WTF ?

And the information I was asking...(due to NAFF contradicting itself...) ? How high are you meant to raise the dishwasher underneath the worktop ?

One document says all the way...which looks as if the door will then foul...or the other document that has the dishwasher on the floor and spacers above it.

Cretins. Morons. Numpties. Idiots. ******* *****

DON'T BUY NAFF

 

[Brandlin]

... and in other news ...

I've had neff thoughout in our kitchen for a couple of decades, love the products and find them very helpful....

 

[RogerS]

... .... find them very helpful....

That's not what an awful lot of internet posts are saying.

"Customer"...'Please can you tell me the width of this item'.

NAFF customer service ..."I don't have that information but the department that does won't tell you, for Health and Safety reasons, as you are not an installer".

 

[Brandlin]

... .... find them very helpful....

That's not what an awful lot of internet posts are saying.

"Customer"...'Please can you tell me the width of this item'.

NAFF customer service ..."I don't have that information but the department that does won't tell you, for Health and Safety reasons, as you are not an installer".

I'm not remotely doubting your experience.
Just offering my own.

 

[Distinterior]

Hi Roger,

The position of the D/W is dictated by various factors.
1. Which model it is.
2. The height of the aperture that particular model is being fitted into.
3. The height of the adjacent cabinets and the associated plinth height.
4. Is the kitchen a "True Handless" Kitchen?.....in which case you will need a specific model of D/W with a sliding hinge door.

As I'm sure you are aware, raising and lowering the D/W affects the pivot position of the furniture door, so very careful planning needs to be done regarding the position of the said D/W to avoid the furniture door hitting the top of the plinth when the door is opened.

Incidently, I've fitted hundreds of BSH Bosch, Neff and Siemens D/W's and have always found their pictorial installation instructions some of the best. The reason they use pictorial instructions, is that the instructions are then universal as opposed to having to print different instructions for different countries.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I have Double Neff ovens/grills, Neff Microwave, Neff warming drawers, Neff Espresso bean to cup pull out machine. They've just had their 10th anniversary....never gone wrong...absolutely love them.

The problem isn't Neff Roger....it's you

 

[lurker]

Roger

http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-ma ... ctions.htm

Ring again and quote

"Instructions should cover not only intended use of a product, but take account of reasonably foreseeable misuse, warning of ways the product should not be used. Where the product is intended to be used by non-professionals instructions should be worded and laid out taking account of the level of general education and understanding that can be expected of such users."

 

[doctor Bob]

Surely the biggest over reaction ever, still I'm sure the Neff, Siemens, Bosch group will have a directors crisis meeting in the morning .... I've heard on the grapevine they are shitting themselves about it, these things gather momentum, who knows in a few days half a dozen woodworkers may have read the original post

 

[tomatwark]

If you are fitting a kicker wind it to the top, the door won't open once the front is on otherwise.

 

[RogerS]

Surely the biggest over reaction ever, still I'm sure the Neff, Siemens, Bosch group will have a directors crisis meeting in the morning .... I've heard on the grapevine they are shitting themselves about it, these things gather momentum, who knows in a few days half a dozen woodworkers may have read the original post

Missing the point. Them quoting Health and Safety and refusing to give any further information is analogous to one of us buying a table saw and then the manufacturer refusing to give us a critical bit of information 'due to Health and Safety'.

 

[RogerS]

.....
4. Is the kitchen a "True Handless" Kitchen?.....in which case you will need a specific model of D/W with a sliding hinge door.
....

Many thanks for the helpful pointers. I'm interested to know why a true handless frontal can't be fitted directly to the door.

Their hieroglyphics are hopeless. In one image they show the D/W hard up against the worktop. In another, there is a distinct gap. The hieroglyphic sheet which doubles as a door fitting guide would, if you believed one of the other boxes, end up halfway 'inside' the worktop. And then they supply a second sheet showing the D/W mounted on the floor with a very large gap filled with a couple of bracing bars between the D/W and the worktop.

To be fair to them they have a wee box with a crossed out image of a drill going through the finger grip on a handless door to alert you. Your comment re a sliding hinge door (which I loathe) will get me double checking.

In the final analysis I threw away the hieroglyphics and went back to basics. Looked at where the door sat on the adjacent cabinet, then worked out where the D/W needed to be in relation to the screw holes in its door corresponding with missing the fingerless grip in the frontal. That then dictated the height of the D/W which left a gap pf about 30cm at the top. Their supplied flimsy brackets screwed to the cabinets on either side (that was a lucky break to have those in place) and a couple of folding wedges lightly siliconed in place at the back to give extra protection against the possibility of it tipping forward. Will need to check the door opening vs the kickers although I'm not averse to trimming a bit of the kicker board - which Naff suggest

 

[Just4Fun]

How high are you meant to raise the dishwasher underneath the worktop ?

One document says all the way...which looks as if the door will then foul...or the other document that has the dishwasher on the floor and spacers above it.

That then dictated the height of the D/W which left a gap pf about 30cm at the top.

So the gap should be 30cm but in one of their diagrams no gap is visible? That (30cm) is some error.
Do they supply the spacers they elsewhere show occupying that 30cm gap above the dishwasher?

 

[RogerS]

How high are you meant to raise the dishwasher underneath the worktop ?

One document says all the way...which looks as if the door will then foul...or the other document that has the dishwasher on the floor and spacers above it.

That then dictated the height of the D/W which left a gap pf about 30cm at the top.

So the gap should be 30cm but in one of their diagrams no gap is visible? That (30cm) is some error.
Do they supply the spacers they elsewhere show occupying that 30cm gap above the dishwasher?

No they don't. Health and Safety reasons, I expect. :-"

 

[doctor Bob]

Surely the biggest over reaction ever, still I'm sure the Neff, Siemens, Bosch group will have a directors crisis meeting in the morning .... I've heard on the grapevine they are shitting themselves about it, these things gather momentum, who knows in a few days half a dozen woodworkers may have read the original post

Missing the point. Them quoting Health and Safety and refusing to give any further information is analogous to one of us buying a table saw and then the manufacturer refusing to give us a critical bit of information 'due to Health and Safety'.

Now your making perfect sense, once you start mixing in a bit of health and safety talk as well as table saw it all became much clearer, jes I'm such a fecking ijut ................ as usual. These pesky dishwashers, don't ever buy sub zero or gaggeneau, you'd ***** yourself horrendously

 

[RogerS]

Surely the biggest over reaction ever, still I'm sure the Neff, Siemens, Bosch group will have a directors crisis meeting in the morning .... I've heard on the grapevine they are shitting themselves about it, these things gather momentum, who knows in a few days half a dozen woodworkers may have read the original post

Missing the point. Them quoting Health and Safety and refusing to give any further information is analogous to one of us buying a table saw and then the manufacturer refusing to give us a critical bit of information 'due to Health and Safety'.

Now your making perfect sense, once you start mixing in a bit of health and safety talk as well as table saw it all became much clearer, jes I'm such a pineapple ijut ................ as usual. These pesky dishwashers, don't ever buy sub zero or gaggeneau, you'd dung yourself horrendously

Thank you for that thoughtful post. I appreciate it.

 

[doctor Bob]

You're welcome.

 

[RogerS]

Jeepers...just fired it up to do a trial wash. I've never heard a noisier dishwasher in my life ! Sounds like a bloody paddle steamer going into maximum reverse.