Nails

[lurker]

I've been watching Roy Underhill
And he got me thinking
I never use nails except for botch ups but then round wire. I did a quick internet search to see what the difference is between these and cut nails. I am semi convinced as to their benefits.
What do you lot think?
Where can I get some
How long should they be? My guess is 3x the thickness of the wood

 

[Steve Maskery]

I *think* that cut nails date from the days when nails were made by hand. It was very poorly-paid work.

Modern nails, are, of course, machine-made.

I've just bought a pneumatic nailer and am astonished at how hard it is to remove them if I've cocked up. They are very tenacious.

I suspect that, like many things, the old things are romantic and beautiful, and the new kids on the block are more efficient, but not as pretty.

3x Thickness sounds good to me.

 

[lurker]

This
https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... e%20Better

Obviously has a vested interest but as I say I'm half convinced

 

[custard]

The wire nails that are pretty much standard today have much less grip than the tapered profile of cut nails, furthermore the natural swelling and shrinking of timber can often tend to push a large headed wire nail out of the timber. I think Charles Hayward described wire nails as "packing crate nails", they were intended to be easily removed for unpacking a crate and weren't expected to maintain their grip for more than a year or two. I've used traditional cut nails for securing moulding or attaching backs when I want a particularly authentic feel to a piece, they're a pleasure to use although you have to experiment a bit to find the correct sized pilot hole, especially in hardwoods.

The downside with cabinet sized cut nails is that there's only one manufacturer, a tiny company in the US, so take away scale economies, add on freight and duty, and they're so expensive that you'd think twice before using them regularly. Rutlands (of all people!) import them, make sure you're sitting down before you look at the prices!

There's a formula for sizing cut nails to the job using the penny or "d" weight designation, I can't remember it off hand but I'm sure you'll find it with some googling.

Good luck!

 

[marcros]

Don't get them from tool station. They stock some really strange versions.

Likebyiu, I was intreagued, so I used some on a lathe bench. The hold very well, but I used the funny tool station version!

 

[custard]

My garden fence isn't more than a few years old, living on the coast it gets a battering from the winter gales, most of the heads of the wire nails are proud of the timber by a mill or two.

Compare that with a couple of eighty or hundred year old tool chests in my workshop, they were entirely assembled with cut nails but the construction is as tight today as when they were first made.

Incidentally, Rutlands also import the extra long and extra soft cut nails designed for clenching over, they take nail integrity and security to a whole new level! What's more a clenched nail is pretty sophisticated fastening in that it rewrites the rules regarding timber movement, I don't do much joinery work but if I did I'd be tempted to overlook the ugliness of clenched nails in order to exploit those advantages.

 

[lurker]

Cut clasp nails seem to be widely available but my guess is the nearest thing to what I want are cut floor nails???

I think I have an old box of these somewhere that I've never gave any thought to before

 

[lurker]

By the way the Roy Underhill episode I was watching he was making a coffin :lol:

I'm just planning ahead 8)

 

[RobinBHM]

Old houses always seem to have picture rails and skirtings fitted with cut clasp nails. Originally hammered into to nice soft new bricks and plaster, attempting to remove after a 100 years later is guaranteed to bring off a big lump of plaster.

Those annular ring shank nails ard a bugger to, try taking a pallet apart

 

[custard]

Cut clasp flooring nails are good and far cheaper, but there are two drawbacks.

First they're too long for many common furniture applications (like nailing on backs and bottoms), and second because they're often used right at the very ends of floor boards they're quite a bit thinner to minimise the risk of splitting.