Middle Door Rail

[simuk]

When setting out tenons on a middle door rail, if the tenon width exceeds 6 times the tenon thickness do you just enlarge the middle haunch, to reduce tenon width?

Thanks in advance

Simon

 

[johnwc812]

Hi Simon
I don't think the tenon width bears any relationship with the tenon thickness.
I would make the tenon thickness approx. a third of the thickness of the rail,
also depends on the chisel size available.
The width of the tenon/s 2" to 4" and I would space 1, 2 or 3 tenons depending on the width of the rail.
The end haunches about 3/4" (or no haunches), the middle haunches about 2".
Cheers John

 

[Rob Platt]

two+ tenons and or yes possibly. It`s then asking if the middle rail is too big to get the look of the door right.
hth though it probably doesn`t
all the best
rob

 

[Eric The Viking]

I think it was originally governed by the locks in use!

Ours (in the public rooms of the house, 1905 vintage) are 11" middle rails (the doors have a narrow upper-middle rail too). The tenons are 3" overall (incl. wedges).

The doors were dip-stripped (idiots!), so the construction is very obvious. The handle hole is almost aligned with the shoulder of the rail - looks really odd now, but would've been fine when it was painted. The keyhole is in the stile.

The locks are in-line (keyhole and handle), and about 2.5" tall (4.25"plate). They're morticed into the middle of the gap between the two tenons. It's not very tidy t the top and bottom of the plate, but you wouldn't have seen it when painted.

This style of lock is unusual these days. If you used the normal 'Euro-lock' pattern, it would weaken the construction enormously, never mind catching your hand on the door casing because a period round handle would be too close to the edge of the door.

 

[twothumbs]

Good thoughts as always from everyone. Two tenons if you are using a lock which traditionally was a 'horizontal' one with a big backset for the handle. The lock backset was less. Ideally you want to miss the tenons and so choose a lock case which fits between the two cuts. You can get a big case with very little inside it. 'Vertical locks' and latches became of use in modern doors where there was no middle rail and the stiles were thin, or more modern flush panel doors where the internal stile or blockings are quite small. 'Lever handles' also came in as knobs were not much use in narrow stile doors. You would get sore knuckles. In current modern doors the miniimum wood is used so easy to put your shoulder to it. I always believed the mid or lock rail tenons stopped the rebates edges or beaded edges from twisting. The overall strength coming from the width of rail 9-10-11". You can nowadays get very good long backset 'latches' to suit older doors. About 6", but locks are not so easy but do you need to lock internal doors. The other way was to use 'budget' or face fix if it is a cupboard or servants rooms!. Hope this is of some interest.

 

[Eric The Viking]

You can nowadays get very good long backset 'latches' to suit older doors. About 6", but locks are not so easy but do you need to lock internal doors. The other way was to use 'budget' or face fix if it is a cupboard or servants rooms!. Hope this is of some interest.

I'd be keen to know another source for those mortice locks if you have one, as the ones I linked-to aren't cheap! They're also as you say - rather empty inside - and a narrower (top-to-bottom) case would be better.

Our place reflects the Victorian style: the public rooms have big doors, mouldings planted on the panels and mortice locks. On the first floor in the family bedrooms it's still mortices, but the doors are slightly smaller and the mouldings on the architraves, skirtings and planted on the doors themselves are simpler (skirtings are lower, too). Elsewhere (kitchen, scullery, cloakroom, bathroom, etc., they are simpler: anything facing a "public" corridor has planted mouldings on that side only, but they all have rim latches, as do the servants' bedrooms on the top floor.

I have to rebuild them some time, as, thanks to dip-stripping, they're falling apart, hinges and locks are knackered, and they can't ever be repainted. I reckon that little exercise by a previous owner will cost me north of £3,000 if I do them myself, and £8,000 if I buy them in. Barry Bucknell has a lot to answer for*...

E.

* but he's probably forgiven because of the Mirror dinghy.

 

[AndyT]

I'd be keen to know another source for those mortice locks if you have one, as the ones I linked-to aren't cheap! They're also as you say - rather empty inside - and a narrower (top-to-bottom) case would be better.
E.

Eric - Bishopston Hardware on Gloucester Road have them, from 4 to 6 inch backset, at £20 which is a third cheaper than Ironmongery Direct. Also a similar range of (cheaper) rim locks and latches.

(If you don't know them, they are well worth a visit - everything you need for the sort of houses in the area; prices lower than B&Q and proper knowledgeable staff. I've been using them for over 30 years, but they've been going quite a lot longer.)