Master?

[compo]

Hi all.

Heard this was the place to be and be seen, so have joined today. Looking forward to having a chat and sharing a few anecdotes etc. Shame there's not a good looking barmaid, but hey...

Anyway, my first question... What makes someone a 'Master'?

I know there have been official Master Thatchers and Master Craftsmen etc for years, but so often I see master carpenter/furniture/cabinet maker and the like. What entitles someone to call themselves a 'Master'? I have just over 20 years in woodworking and consider myself fairly apt, but yes, I'm still learning tho still not 40 yet. It certainly sounds grand, maybe it's a modern day marketing thing, tho, I think I'll wait before I order my new business cards.

When I think of 'Masters' I think of people like Krenov, Chippendale, Morris, Savage, Makepeace and plenty of others.

I don't mean to sound pompous or uptight or belittling to anyone, I'd just like to know or maybe start a discussion...

 

[NKE]

I’m not certain about how it works here in the UK, and if my experiences as a violin maker are relevant to all other crafts. But in many of the mainland Europe countries where the apprenticeship system is still a integral part of training as a violin maker you work your way up from a “learner” through as a “journey man” and then once you have sat your “masters exam” you become a master.
I had enormous problems with the “handwerks kammer” in Germany (basically the union to protect crafts people in Germany) when I was self employed over there because they didn’t recognise me as a professional and it is (or was) against their laws to be self employed without becoming a master.
My argument with them was that I had an internationally recognised qualification from a British violin making school and also almost twenty years experience working in some of the best known violin restoration workshops if Europe therefore it was a nonsense to ask me to have to take all the German exams when I was considered totally professional in another European country. It all got pretty nasty and they were keen to take the matter to court…in the end I came back to the UK for other reasons as well.
I know several other violin makers who went through similar problems in Germany including a few who get as far as being taken to court and winning, but I have a felling things have become simpler now.
neil

 

[Digit]

Shame there's not a good looking barmaid,

There is, but necomers aren't allowed near her!

Roy.

 

[iajon69]

Shame there's not a good looking barmaid,

There is, but necomers aren't allowed near her!

Roy.

Roy - keep it quiet, I thought the good looking barmaid was just for the Welsh members

Ian

 

[compo]

Ahh ok guys, so that's all part of being a master eh?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Regrettably, on here it's just the number of posts you've got under your belt.
Ah, if only it were that simple in the real workshop!
S

 

[Digit]

Roy - keep it quiet, I thought the good looking barmaid was just for the Welsh members

Ooops!

Roy.

 

[Waka]

Compo

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Harbo]

I am still a lowly peasant with 471 posts - perhaps you have to reach a 1000 or 2?

Welcome to the Forum

Rod ( PS do lots of "Welcomes" and you numbers will rise rapidly? )

Rod

 

[brianhabby]

Welcome to the forum Compo - you're gonna luv it

My father was a Master Decorator for reasons similar to what Neil mentions above, but I think the term is abused these days.

Have you noticed how some of the so called experts on TV are often billed as Master Craftsmen - and they're terrible bodgers.

Just my thoughts

regards

Brian

 

[Digit]

Like every salesman is a 'Sales Executive' etc.
I saw one on TV recently listed and a personal relocator.
Estate agent!

Roy.

 

[NeilO]

or a visual technician......



















aka a window cleaner

some people would rather have a title at their plce of employment rather than a pay rise....go figure???

you acn keep your titles, just give me the money... unless of course its
Lie Nielsen Merchandise test coordinator :lol: :lol:


BTW Welcome Compo, to the best forum ever...

 

[Digit]

Too true Neil. I was a senior exec at one place I worked at and got told off by the MD 'cos I was eating in the staff canteen rather that the exec's and one canditate turned down a job 'cos he didn't have the right to use the exec bog!

Roy.

 

[Jeff Gorman]

Fundamentally, the word simply means 'a worker qualified to teach apprentices and to carry on a trade independently.'

 

[Benchwayze]

I had enormous problems with the “handwerks kammer” in Germany (basically the union to protect crafts people in Germany) when I was self employed over there because they didn’t recognise me as a professional and it is (or was) against their laws to be self employed without becoming a master.

neil

Hi NKE,

Thanks for that info, ref German Law.

The way it was explained to me, a person could set up in business (A civil right), but to advertise their services, said person had to be properly qualified. Which makes sense. It seems I was misinformed.

Thanks again.
Regards
John

 

[Benchwayze]

Shame there's not a good looking barmaid,

There is, but necomers aren't allowed near her!

Roy.

Roy - keep it quiet, I thought the good looking barmaid was just for the Welsh members

Ian

I almost posted something here, but I decided against it! (about barmaids, not the Welsh, I must add! :mrgreen:
John

 

[Benchwayze]

Welcome Compo.
Enjoy the experience...

And boy, is it ever an experience! (hammer)

John

 

[skipdiver]

You just have to buy one of them "Guild of Master Craftsmen" car sticker thingy's dont you?Then you are a master.

 

[Benchwayze]

You just have to buy one of them "Guild of Master Craftsmen" car sticker thingy's dont you?Then you are a master.

Master of all you survey? Yeah... Like I would do that...

Cheers Steve

John
ccasion5:

 

[NKE]

Hi john, I think it is/was a pretty grey area legally speaking. The lawyer I talked to for advice when the handwerks kammer threatened me guessed they would as likely as not fail in court, but they wanted to frighten me into becoming a member and paying for all the courses to get my meister prufung.
One of my arguments with them was that their rules were totally contrary to German federal law and EU law and they were just trying to frighten and bully me into taking their courses and pay their annual membership.
I am in theory in favour of trades be regulated in some way to protect the public from being ripped off by rogue traders, but the handwerks kammer is in my opinion far more interested in making money to justify their own existence then cleaning up the mess of bad practice found in some of the trades they claim to regulate.
neil