Even Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask!!

[barkwindjammer]

And barkwindjammer, the thing is that hydrogen is readily available everywhere, and lithium is not. Well, there's a lot of it around, but concentrated in certain areas so that it is politically controlled. Rather like petroleum.

While you are right about the geographical high yield of lithium and placement on the political map of the world, Hydrogen is not readily available everywhere, its true that it makes up 1/3rd of a water molecule-its effectively 'locked' it takes electricity to 'un-lock' it, and when its 'un-locked' its as expensive and as efficient (or not) as petroleum.

 

[spinks]

and lets not forget that hydrogen gas alone is VERY volatile, it will ignite with very very little provocation so is inherantly unstable and dangerous to store without extremely strict controls!! Whilst its a very cheap and plentiful fuel supply I dont fancy seeing tanker loads of the stuff barreling down the M4 (other motorways are available upon request) with Johnny Tired and on the phone behind the wheel!!!

 

[graduate_owner]

I don't know how Hydrogen would compare with a gas like Acetylene in terms of flammability and instability. Acetylene is too unstable to be stored as a liquefied product so is dissolved in acetone. If a similar arrangement could be found for Hydrogen then there might be a future for its use as a road fuel. I remember seeing a TV programme about 30 years ago where Hydrogen was absorbed by some sort of crystals which made it safer to store.

The great thing about burning Hydrogen is the product of combustion is water - not so very polluting!!

To produce Hydrogen needs energy of course, but what about using surplus electricity (i.e. off peak) for electrolysis. We have a number of pumped storage schemes for storing electricity generated off peak, ready for releasing during peak demand. They are really massive systems (e.g.Dinorwic). Off peak electrolysis could perhaps be a cheaper means of using this surplus electricity (just a thought - obviously I don't have access to costings to be able to justify this).

Also, what about solar pv? It could be feasible to use the electricity from large solar energy installations directly for electrolysis - no need for unsightly pylons etc to take the electricity to the national grid.

K

 

[riclepp]

I'd love to help you Gerry except for this one thing.

Its hard to help anyone when you are 16 1/2 Trillon down.

Travis

+1 for the picture of the starving piggy bank =D> =D>

 

[riclepp]

I saw somewhere an article about scientists that are trying to recapture petrol molecules from atmospheric air. It is possible but they are only able to do this on a small scale at present. There is also a university in the US, which has produced so form of bacteria that when you feed it sugar it produces diesel as a byproduct. They, apparently are selling this as a kit now.....don't tell the government as they would proberly still tax you on it.

The way I see thing going is not a good one. World depresion starts to make conutries eye other countries reseouces and invade them....then starts another war. Maybe its needed...who knows....would'nt be a bad thing in my view, to many human beings on this small planet the we seem to enjoy destroying it bit by bit every day.

 

[James-1986]

Fuel was 78p per litre when I started driving, I used to go for miles on £5 of fuel!

I read recently that the 2000 to 2008 period was really just a giant Ponzi scheme with ever increasing spending backed by ever increasing lending and no one thinking about where the money was comming from. With a bit of luck I'll get through my time on this planet....just about solvent.........but future generations have got some BIG shocks comming to them. Sixteen and a half trillion will NEVER be repaid, not even a fraction of it.

Unfortunately our whole banking and monetary system is based on debt. Until we kick out the usurers who are charging us interest on money they pulled out of thin air; we're doomed!

I suggest we go back to the wooden split tally, 750 years of economic stability. Plus as woodworkers we'll be able to do some counterfeiting

 

[graduate_owner]

Hey Lons,
I bet you'll be looking for diesel at £1.48 a litre soon, and thinking yourself lucky to get it at that price. And by 'soon' I mean in the next few weeks.

K

 

[Eric The Viking]

Remember the Hindenburg.
Makes me even more nervous about road accidents than LPG.

+1

If you put hydrogen in balloons, they deflate rapidly, as it diffuses through the rubber (and perishes it on the way). Incredibly dangerous to handle, almost as bad as LOX.

And in any case the most stupid thing is that you have to use electrical energy* to create it in the first place. "But the only thing coming from the exhaust pipe is water." True, but what about the chimney of the power station needed for the electrolysis? I wonder what they intend doing with the oxygen, too.

Our politicians think we're idiots, or at least that we won't notice that they are.

E.

*currently the price/Joule for methane is 1/4 that of electricity from our supplier, so I fill my kettle from the hot tap (gas boiler) before using it to bring the water to the boil.

 

[Lons]

Hey Lons,
I bet you'll be looking for diesel at £1.48 a litre soon, and thinking yourself lucky to get it at that price. And by 'soon' I mean in the next few weeks. K

I don't doubt it.

Wife dragged me off to Tesco tonight so I topped the car up as she got 5p a ltr off the listed £1.45. Still cost me £65 but at least the computer says I have 540 miles left!

Just ordered heating oil as well at 64p ltr plus 5% vat so thats £670 for 1000 ltrs -ouch

Bob