You need to be sitting down ...

[Andy Kev.]

... before you have a look at this:

https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodwor ... 97_1_12_12

How much??? For a marking knife?

Mind you for a couple of bob more you can get a hammer:

https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodwor ... 97_1_12_12

which at least puts a bit more in your hand.

 

[DiscoStu]

That's nuts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fitzroy]

Free sharpening though! Save you hours of debate on here

 

[AndyT]

It's more than I would pay for a marking knife, but I think it's just an example of "Premium Pricing". Some people will like it, arguing that if it costs so much, it must be the best. Maybe they already have a Rolex watch and a Ferrari.

Dictum are smart enough to have a wide range of other marking knives, for a few Euros upwards, so all their customers can find one at a price they are willing to pay.

It's a well established idea, visible in many old tool catalogues. Popular tools for such a premium range included plough planes, levels and marking gauges.

But yes, it's a lot of money for a knife, even if it includes a helping of Japanese mystery and free resharpening.

 

[BHolcombe]

The more famous a blacksmith the more his pricing will increase. If you really want sticker shock take a look on eBay for Ichihiro chisels, Usui Kengo planes, Kiyohisa anything, Shigfusa knives,etc.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I do see what Andy Kev is saying, and I 'sort of' agree. But for those of us just wanting a basic, functional tool to mark lines, there are plenty of sensibly priced options, and some higher priced ones. You can even do a Paul Sellers and regrind a redundant kitchen vegetable parer.

However, there is a little imp in me that says, "Why should the art world have a monopoly of overpriced, overhyped artifacts? Why not the practical world too?" If people are prepared to spend obscene sums on Picasso paintings, Damien Hurst pickled sharks or whatever, why not try to support the practical arts in the same sort of way? It's just another manifestation of the huge variety of the human condition, that's all.

By the way, do they do the knives left-handed or spear point? Somebody had to ask....but I'll bet they never do a 20oz claw hammer in that manner!

 

[Andy Kev.]

I do see what Andy Kev is saying, and I 'sort of' agree. But for those of us just wanting a basic, functional tool to mark lines, there are plenty of sensibly priced options, and some higher priced ones. You can even do a Paul Sellers and regrind a redundant kitchen vegetable parer.

However, there is a little imp in me that says, "Why should the art world have a monopoly of overpriced, overhyped artifacts? Why not the practical world too?" If people are prepared to spend obscene sums on Picasso paintings, Damien Hurst pickled sharks or whatever, why not try to support the practical arts in the same sort of way? It's just another manifestation of the huge variety of the human condition, that's all.

By the way, do they do the knives left-handed or spear point? Somebody had to ask....but I'll bet they never do a 20oz claw hammer in that manner!

I ought to make it clear that I don't object in the least to tools like these being sold at such prices (as long as they are indeed of high quality) and I accept fully your art-related sentiment and if folk find satisfaction in owning such things then I genuinely wish them well. As it happens I stumbled upon them while looking what to spend my Christmas bonus on because it allows me once a year to treat myself to something which I really couldn't normally justify. I think what got me about the marking knife is that even the best marking knife in the world (which isn't going to cut wood more finely or precisely than my humble Pfeil knife) should surely cost at an absolute max no more than about 100 quid. How wrong I was!!! The 500 Euro hammer at least looks like some sort of work of art.

(And for what it's worth I ended up with a Clifton 4 1/2 which works like a dream and has definitely got more knobs and screws on it than that marking knife.)

 

[iNewbie]

When you read this bit:

Chiyozuru is one of the most well-known names for plane blades and other woodworking tools in Japan. Many of these forged tools from current and previous generations are viewed as national cultural treasures in Japan. Furthermore, the tools have also received numerous awards. After a 13-year apprenticeship under his master Chiyozuru Sadahide II (72 years old), the 37-year-old Chiyozuru Naohide (4th generation) was granted permission to manufacture and sell his own tools bearing the Chiyozuru name.

.....its about as boutique as boutique can get and as their prices go.

 

[Biliphuster]

I don't think there is anything wrong with paying more for luxury tools, my time in the workshop is meant to be enjoyable and using nice tools aids that. Specifically I don't mind paying more for luxury tools if I can see a lot of work has gone into them, I know a Clifton has required more work and used more expensive materials than an Anant plane. Similarly I know a Holtey infill has required more work again. The value comes from the pleasure of using something beautifully engineered and aesthetically attractive.

The expensive part of that knife looks to be the name, I can't see anyone getting extra value from it as it's near indistinguishable from a normal Japanese marking knife (I am a philistine when it comes to these things though, so ignore my opinion).

 

[BHolcombe]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

 

[Bm101]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

Quite right. It's fairly priced for a part of the market. Each to their own.
I'm not part of that market though. I can't imagine spending it even I had it to spend.
I do have a bit of 4mm 01 ground stock in ma shed left over from making a recent plane blade though. Guess who's going to knock out a 'representation of a similar idea' of that knife this week on the grinder. Go on guess!
It definitely won't be me for fear of infringing any legal issues obviously.
Early thoughts are predicting 'right handed' the reality will more plausibly be 'ambi-sinister'.

:-$

 

[monkeybiter]

Guess who's going to knock out a 'representation of a similar idea' of that knife this week on the grinder. Go on guess!

You know it won't be any good unless it has a hole in it the shape of a vegetable :roll: (hammer)

 

[ED65]

As soon as I scrolled down and saw it was Japanese I knew it would be pricey, but still I wasn't sufficiently prepared. Yikes. Just, yikes.

 

[iNewbie]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

Specialised. That'll be boutique then.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... tique.html

 

[Biliphuster]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

As I said, complete philistine that I am, I can't see the significance of those features, is white paper steel that different from other high carbon steels? Is the pine charcoal that important? Why are those things so expensive? What constitutes "top tier smithing"? I have mass production tools with forge laminated blades which all work well. I am sorry if I come off as dismissive but as I said, this is something about which I know little.

I like your blog by the way, very very nice work.

 

[BHolcombe]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

Specialised. That'll be boutique then.

They are literally a boutique maker, true, however I don't believe they're inflating their prices. Most could probably hike their prices much higher if they wanted to reduce the length of time it takes to acquire their goods.

Kiyohisa is now something like 8 years wait, and Konobu is over a year. For small shops employing only a few people who work very long days, I think that would imply that they're in fact under-priced since they have such a long line.

 

[BHolcombe]

Spend a lifetime learning how work hitachi white steel 1 in a pine charcoal forge then make the result as sexy as Chiyozuru....make yourself a name in a country with hundreds of famous blacksmiths, then see how much money you'd like for your effort.

These aren't boutique prices as much as they're the pricing of the top tier of smithing in a country known for quality blacksmithing.

As I said, complete philistine that I am, I can't see the significance of those features, is white paper steel that different from other high carbon steels? Is the pine charcoal that important? Why are those things so expensive? What constitutes "top tier smithing"? I have mass production tools with forge laminated blades which all work well. I am sorry if I come off as dismissive but as I said, this is something about which I know little.

I like your blog by the way, very very nice work.

Thank you, and I take no offense to this discussion, just wanted to offer my 2 cents.

Wether or not you value it is one thing and should frankly be set aside from an honest discussion of wether or not something is literally worth the asking price. There are scales of quality, much the same as buying a pair of shoes or something of that affect, the more aspects of quality that are included in a work the higher the price is to acquire such work.

If I want a house built with complicated joinery and top tier old growth woods, I'm going to pay for it. You may see the logic in that...better wood; higher price.....better work; higher price....better design; higher price.....when you contact the best in the field with a long waiting list for their work they charge a further premium.

A smith who adheres to traditional method is going to be making work that is considered more difficult to achieve, along with a smith using white paper 1 steel and pine charcoal. One who uses a sen tool (scraper) to work the back hollow (ura) more expensive yet.

 

[El Barto]

I mean, it's pretty f-ing cool isn't it.

 

[Trafalgar]

The Japanese purveyors of woodworking equipment have been laughing all the to the bank for a while now...

Biggest rip-off in woodworking.

 

[thetyreman]

not sure the price is right, I can understand the work involved, but it's truly ridiculous, this is for investment bankers and millionaire entrepreneurs only, in other words the 1%