Which course, Paul Sellers or Peter Sefton

[Estoril-5]

I'm looking to attend a course next year from either Paul or Peter. Having never attended a woodworking course I'm not sure which craftsman to go for.

This is not intended to start a war or anything, just wanted some advice.

As I'm in Birmingham I'll need to travel and require overnight accommodation for either person due to their location.

So, whose been and what would you recommend?

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[Estoril-5]

Apologies, was meant to say Peter Sefton but the autocorrect crept in. Sorry

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[John15]

Peter Sefton's 5 day Beginner's Course is very good.

John

 

[transatlantic]

I wouldn't take the risk of picking one. Do both!

 

[Estoril-5]

I wouldn't take the risk of picking one. Do both!

I am a man with limited financial resource (although my wife would have you believe otherwise) and hence can only pick one.

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[NickN]

AFAIK the Paul Sellers courses are 9 day at c. £950 or 2 day at c. £300, but for a compromise and reduced accommodation expense I quite like the look of the 5 day Peter Sefton beginner course at £460 (EDIT: oops, £640).

It's a decision I too need to make, but living in Worcestershire does mean I could commute to the Sefton school, not so much for the 80 rather tedious cross country miles to Abingdon.

I have attended the one day Sellers saw and plane course, it was good for learning basic cleaning and sharpening, not so good for learning practical technique or finishing, so I did leave a tiny bit disappointed, though it was a very enjoyable and worthwhile day.

 

[Estoril-5]

The Peter Sefton 5 day course is £640 if I'm not mistaken.

Has anyone been to the Paul sellers two day course?

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[Wizard9999]

Timing may be a factor. Peter has explained on here previously that the short courses only run while the long course is on holiday and not using the school. This means limited dates and long lead times. His two April 5 day courses are already full (according to his website), so that means the next available course is July next year. No idea on how far in advance Paul Seller's courses need to be booked.

Terry.

EDIT: stupid me, the course booking info on the 5 day course on Peter's site is somewhat out of date, it is still showing April 2016 and these are the course showing as full. Suggest you call to get availability if timing is a factor.

 

[deema]

Perhaps an approach is to list down what your needs and expectations are for a course, and then speak to each to see which if any matches or can offer a course that will meet your requirements. It may sound odd, but simply defining your requirements clearly and what you expect to be able to do at the end will help the trainers to determine if realistically it can be achieved with one of their courses.

My own rule of thumb is that any course in which I benefit from 50% of the instruction is terrific. Courses must cater for all abilities and time is always dedicated to achieveing a common level of understanding for everyone attending.

I would suggest that an easy way of making an assessment is by looking for a course that requires you to make something. You will beforehand know which skills are required to make the object, and by careful selection you can ensure that not only will you have something physically of value to take away, but also the knowledge to make another and similar objects.

 

[MrTeroo]

Having been on the Paul Sellers two day course I wouldn't go again. I felt his ego got in the way of actually teaching woodworking.

I've done this, I've made this, I have pieces in the White House. Nobody else does it this way. You won't see this in any books and so on.

Plenty of wide eyed disciples in attendance to lap it up though.

I came away very disappointed. There is no denying he is a master craftsman but I didn't really want to hear his philosophies on how to raise children, how to live your life etc.

His input into the two days was limited to a few demonstration sessions around his bench. Then sending us off to repeat what he had shown.

He didn't really get involved out in the workshop, leaving that to his assistant Phil. He seemed to prefer walking around taking photographs for his blog/facebook. He is also a master of self promotion I think.


If you are a disciple of Paul Sellers you will love this course. If you want to learn woodworking you may feel short changed for £235

 

[Beau]

Not attended either but from seeing a bit of a few Paul Sellers videos and seeing the work that comes out of Mr Sefton's establishment you are not comparing like with like. Pauls work appears to be good quality carpentry were as Peters work appears to be very high quality furniture.

What type of woodwork are you aiming to make?

 

[Estoril-5]

As daft as it sounds I don't really know what I want and hence want to do a course to learn the basics.

Saying that ive never used chisels, planes etc, I've never done any type of joints etc.

My work has always been cutting on the mitre, jig or circular saw and then glue and screw and then fill holes. Very rough and ready stuff.

Here's some stuff I've built previously

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[Benchwayze]

Esto;

Who wood'a known there were no 'joints' in these examples if you hadn'ta said so?

It's the same if you make a piece of furniture with a Kreg Jig. It will look good, and last as long as you want it to. How it's put together is irrelevant, from that point of view. If you want to woodwork for the sake of it, and do things 'properly', then take a course. I fall between your two choices. Peter is a craftsman, Paul is a craftsman, but they do produce different kinds of work; generally speaking. Paul Sellers can produce fine furniture, but he tends to teach plain and simple woodwork; some of it more like good carpentry. Peter Sefton on the other hand concentrates more on furniture. He's a he's fine craftsman, and he's quite near Brum. His shop is roomy, airy and well lit. You could commute, no probs.

That's my choice between your two prospects; if I was making one.

Best'o luck Esto.

John

 

[Racers]

I can't stand Peter Sellers their is just something about him that sets my teeth on edge, I have met Peter Sefton and he's a really nice chap so no guessing where I would go.

Pete

 

[NickN]

Ok, well as one or two others have said things I didn't want to comment on because of being relatively new here, I will add to my previous posting and say that:

His input into the two days was limited to a few demonstration sessions around his bench. Then sending us off to repeat what he had shown. He didn't really get involved out in the workshop, leaving that to his assistant Phil.

is very much my experience too. I had been expecting Paul to move around the classroom (there were 12 of us) critiquing, helping, giving tips, encouragement, etc. during the day - what really happened was that it was Phil doing most of the practical assistance, on his own, and as a result several of us struggled a bit to know exactly how to proceed.

There were at least a couple of people who never exchanged a word with Paul all day after the introductory ice breaking session, which I feel is a big shame. To be fair, Paul did come over and critique my restoration and sharpening of a bench plane, but only after I went over to specifically ask.

So yes, very talented and creative chap, inspiring, even, and a very good 'demonstration' teacher, but a bit lacking in being active in the hands-on help during the course, at least, in my experience of the day. Which is where help is really needed.

I may still consider the longer course Paul does, as it would appear to be more general woodworking (which is what I need) whereas Peter Sefton is more focused on the furniture aspect, at least that's my impression. Still, Upton upon Severn is relatively so close it would be silly not to go to one of his courses at some point.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I can't stand Peter Sellers

Pete

Is that Paul Sellers brother? :lol:

 

[Beau]

Ok, well as one or two others have said things I didn't want to comment on because of being relatively new here, I will add to my previous posting and say that:

His input into the two days was limited to a few demonstration sessions around his bench. Then sending us off to repeat what he had shown. He didn't really get involved out in the workshop, leaving that to his assistant Phil.

is very much my experience too. I had been expecting Paul to move around the classroom (there were 12 of us) critiquing, helping, giving tips, encouragement, etc. during the day - what really happened was that it was Phil doing most of the practical assistance, on his own, and as a result several of us struggled a bit to know exactly how to proceed.

There were at least a couple of people who never exchanged a word with Paul all day after the introductory ice breaking session, which I feel is a big shame. To be fair, Paul did come over and critique my restoration and sharpening of a bench plane, but only after I went over to specifically ask.

So yes, very talented and creative chap, inspiring, even, and a very good 'demonstration' teacher, but a bit lacking in being active in the hands-on help during the course, at least, in my experience of the day. Which is where help is really needed.

I may still consider the longer course Paul does, as it would appear to be more general woodworking (which is what I need) whereas Peter Sefton is more focused on the furniture aspect, at least that's my impression. Still, Upton upon Severn is relatively so close it would be silly not to go to one of his courses at some point.

I did a year with David Savage and in all honesty he did not do much of the day to day teaching but what he did is create the standards and approach to the work. Think he would admit the some of his staff were better craftsman and probably better at some aspects of teaching so IMO it's not essential that the Boss is too hands on just that their approach and standards are instilled in their staff and subsequently the students.

 

[lurker]

I can't stand Peter Sellers

Pete

Is that Paul Sellers brother? :lol:

He was good in the goon show but went off as he became world famous

 

[NickN]

By the way, just seen posted today on Paul Sellers' blog:

"In January we will be hosting an event surrounding woodworking joinery and I am hoping we can fill every seat to the tune of a hundred people fascinated by woodworking. He explores past traditions and unites the important elements of accuracy and sharpness with his own insights that guarantee the perfection we strive for in exemplary joinery. The tools he uses are both modern and old. Tools that survived alongside the joinery we speak of. Paul reaches back to the best of the past, unites practices and techniques with the present and reaches forward to a new future for woodworkers."

Event is from 10.00 to 12.00, so a two hour talk / presentation. Tickets are £50. :shock:

Anyway for anyone interested the link is:

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/joinery- ... 8289108485

Probably be quite interesting but £50 ticket plus £15 fuel, well, finishing my workshop and getting equipment for it is at the moment a better use for my limited funds.

 

[El Barto]

Interesting to hear peoples' perspectives on this.

Personally speaking, I went on a 6 week "woodworking basics" course (or some similar title) at UCL (one night a week) in 2013 and while it was informative and somewhat useful, I've found I've learnt a lot more by watching YouTube videos. It's very useful being able to come back over and over again to videos. I suppose this all depends on learning style too. Of course being able to speak to an actual instructor who is right there with you is invaluable.

But having done a course, albeit not taken by anyone near the skill level or experience of Paul or Peter, I'm more than happy to stick with the internet and spend the money on tools etc.