What I think of this forum

[Anonymous]

Before anyone runs down another's work they should watch "The Salvager". Looking at his work makes mine look 4*.

Koolwabbit

 

[Digit]

That's a shame Steve, but to me there are two different facets here.
Earlier a poster posted some pics of some furniture made in France, pretty much none of us was impressed.... with the design.
The quality of workmanship may have been superb.
I have had a number of apprentices in my time and was at one time in charge of apprentice training, and of one thing I am absolutely certain, making someone look foolish is not the way to train them.
Critique, yes. Snotty remarks, definitely not!
One apprentice said to me once, 'it's all right for you, you don't make mistakes!'
I replied, 'don't worry lad, I made 'em all long before you were born!'

Roy.

 

[billw]

As a complete and utter novice, I would much rather someone told me I was doing something badly wrong, or that a design simply wasn't going to work or didn't look "right", maybe because its dimensions made it look a bit short/long/tall/whatever.

I can see how people would find it difficult to cricitise workmanship, I know some of my joints look like I cut them in the dark with a chainsaw but if someone posts up the shortcomings in a joint AND suggestions for how to improve then I'd be grateful even if a little embarrassed.

I have to say I do appreciate the wealth of knowledge on here and I think that if this just turned into a backslapping club then some of that knowledge and skill would not get passed on to those of us who want to learn.

 

[woodbloke]

Foggy Town wrote:

I agree, yetloh, but not 100%. Comment on faulty technique (e.g. bad workmanship) is critical to the development of woodworking skills. A piece may be solidly designed but display obvious shortcomings: patchy finish, glue lines, sunken filler spots, open joints, obvious saw marks, etc., etc. Now if the worker posts such an item to the Forum he must think he's done a good job. Shouldn't the more experienced in here point out where he's gone wrong and what he can do to prevent/correct it? We have to assume that he wants to increase his knowledge and improve his skills.

For example - bare screw heads showing on, say, a coffee table is not a "personal matter" of design. It's bad workmanship. And I would feel an obligation to point out to the person the advantages of making and using plugs.

If someone took offence at that, I'd question their commitment to their own progress.

I was going to post something along these lines earlier. Workmanship is part of the making process and clearly bad workmanship ought to be brought to the maker's attention.

The Tiddles wrote:

hopefully I'll meet some more of you the weekend after next in Sussex

...where's that gona be Tiddles? :wink: - Rob

 

[FogggyTown]

Before anyone runs down another's work they should watch "The Salvager". Looking at his work makes mine look 4*.

Koolwabbit

I miss Rico. 6 railroad sleepers, one chainsaw, two dozen 8" spikes and one club hammer = one bed.

 

[yetloh]

I know what you mean about workmanship but I take the view that people are able to recognise the making flaws in their own work - anyone can recognise a treacle finish or a gap in a dovetail - without having it pointed out. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think we all know where we stand on the bodge-up to Makepeace continuum and it is a journey we take as our skills improve. Where we stop can be a function of many things; patience, priorities, purpose and innate ability amongst them.

Jim

 

[Digit]

Ah for the days of my apprenticeship, the usual method of training was a belt round the ear! :lol:
The good old days!

Roy.

 

[davegw]

In my (very) humble opinion, whilst constructive criticism is helpful, blind positivity ("oh my that's gorgeous") and needless negativity ("What a S**t finish" ) are both destructive and extremely unhelpful.

It pays not to mix up the too. It's easy to spot constructive comments - they talk about the piece, not the person. they contain helpful suggestions for improvements, and generally they include "positive" comments as well as "negative".

I've always really appreciated the help, advice, and feedback for the work I have posted here. But I have seen feedback (not received) that asks questions like "Did you mean for those mitres to not quite meet?" I rarely know what to say to the poster of the work, or the feedback.

Dave

 

[wizer]

It is difficult to point out errors in one's work when the poster has not mentioned it. But I believe that the whole purpose of this forum is to help advance our woodworking, whatever level we're at. So if the mitres didn't meet, then we need to find out why so it doesn't happen next time. If in the last year a poster has put up 3 pieces of work with poor mitres then I guess it just has to be ignored, but at least an effort had been made to help that woodworker out.

It's not one big p*ssing contest, is it?

Since i've been turning I've learned that critique is essential. It's important for us all to know what effect out work has on the general public. Out F&F will almost always say something you create is nice. Most of the time they just don't know how to constructively criticise something, apart from "I don't like it". Which is why it's so important to get subjective views from our woodworking peers.

 

[Ironballs]

I really value the comments and I'm looking forward to the compos, looking through the WIPs I came across a table that Colin was doing and he had the same conundrum I have with regard to curved legs, so we had quite a good debate about solutions.

When I (eventually) get round to posting up my draft design I will be doing it partly for feedback, I doubt I will change the design because of group aesthetics, but where I'm heading into an issue later in the build which could ruin the whole piece I'm hopeful that others will spot it and offer advice. As I'm making a TV stand any failure in the piece will be costly and involve withdrawal of nocturnal privileges

 

[FogggyTown]

As I'm making a TV stand any failure in the piece will be costly and involve withdrawal of nocturnal privileges

You mean no workshop activity after dark? That's inhuman!

 

[adzeman]

What do I think of this Forum? I think it is great!
What do I think of criticism? if it is constructive not a problem look forward to it. Have not seen any major derisory criticism so not a problem. Minor derisory criticism was picked up by the Forum checkers and apologies were quick in response.
My favorite Forum is the Projects and mistakes and its no good talking about the projects its the pictures No pictures no job. don't see many pictures of mistakes and I would like to suggest what I would do differently. At the end of a project surely one thanks how could this have been done differently OR, where one changed ones mind halfway through, OR where it went wrong and how it was overcome.
I would not expect this from those who make a living from woodwork but we enthusiastic amateurs would be interested.

 

[Digit]

Mistakes! Interesting point there Mike, I think that in future I shall include any mistakes in my pics.
PS. If I make any of course! :lol:
After all, we probably learn more from our mistakes than our successes.

Roy.

 

[wizer]

I just post mistakes

 

[TheTiddles]

The Tiddles wrote:

hopefully I'll meet some more of you the weekend after next in Sussex

...where's that gona be Tiddles? :wink: - Rob

West Sussex Swingers Convention, where else?

Aidan