Veritas MKII honing guide

[Anonymous]

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[engineer one]

aw shucks alf :lol: :twisted: :roll:

i do agree with david charlesworth, and as i have said before to experiment with freehand sharpening you need to understand what is good, and what is really sharp, and frankly a guide gets you there in the first place, and is repeatable.

jeff gorman is i agree someone who checks his facts and writes, as does dc, carefully and explicitly the results. :idea:

the development of diamond stones has made it possible to sharpen more quickly but the refence points have changed. a guide therefor makes it easier to keep within the known reference points.

anyone knocking the guide for those who are seeking to learn sharpening initially, or indeed those who only do it infrequently is IMHO doing both themselves and others a disservice.

paul :wink:

 

[pidgeonpost]

Folks, I didn't intend to start an argument over this, so apologies if a few feathers have been ruffled.
Just to revisit the discussion (as briefly as I can), I have no strong feelings one way or the other. My woodwork master (who used to make laminated aircraft propellers in the industry) used to say that the best method is the one that works for you.
I do tend to side with Alf in having two strings to your bow though. Both methods have their advantages I guess, and although I want to get better at hand honing, I wanted to use a guide to get things right initially so I had a known good starting point - hence the Veritas guide.
The problem I have at the moment is that I can't get good results from the guide straight out of the box, and clearly I am not alone. In the last couple of days I have tried a couple more things in an effort to improve the situation.
I tried removing the paint from the jaws by careful draw-filing. There was no obvious improvement. I also tried inverting the nuts (on the guide) which enables you to hold the movable jaw in contact with the chisel blade by hand as you tighten the jaws. I think this improved things slightly, but needs the addition of a couple of washers the right size which I didn't have to hand (thanks for the tip Alan a.k.a. Mailee).
In addition to this I could still add a couple of strips of abrasive material such as Emery cloth to the jaws which might help - but why should you need to do this to get the thing to reliably do what it's sold to do???
Anyway, nuff's enuff - I've bored everyone sick with this. I shall persevere with and without the guide as the mood takes me, but will also send some feedback to Veritas customer service, and the dealer I bought it from.

 

[David C]

Pidgeonpost,

Absolutely no need to apologize! Your question simply fired up old disagreements..........

My opinion is that a small chisel is much better held in the side clamping style. i.e. Eclipse type far eastern copy, just over £5 from APTC and others.

Unfortunately some skill and practice are required to get a square edge, tho this function is controllable with finger pressure. It is not automatic.

The Veritas mark 2 has some very clever features, but does not hold narrow & asymmetric crossection chisels well, although some people are clearly managing.

The desire to get a square edge automatically with a wide roller is absolutely dependent on perfect clamping. Previous wide roller or training wheel guides have much worse clamping systems. As far as I know there is no perfect design yet.......

best wishes,
David

 

[dchenard]

I'll just tiptoe in here, since I'm already busy arguing the guide issue in another forum :roll:

Do the guides work? Yes. Consistently? more or less, one has to be really careful to register the blade in the jig in order to fall back on the established bevels, and it doesn't take much to be off. Do I own a guide? Two actually, the Mk. II (had the Mk. I previously) and an Eclipse (unused so far). Can they help beginners to put a fine edge on a blade? Definitely. Are they beneficial to the budding hand tool user? Short term yes, long term no, in my opinion.

But ultimately, my objection to guides is philosophical. We are here in the Hand Tools (capitalized, thank you) forum, which goal is to promote their use. I think most of us would not go back to rip lumber exclusively with hand saws, a bandsaw is faster, more precise, more consistent, less tiring, and relieves the worker from what is basically an ingrate task. But we strive to cut our dovetails, tenons, mortises, etc. by hand, and in the process develop the motor coordination and finesse required to accomplish these tasks to a high level. Honing by hand works hand in hand with that philosophy, because in order to become proficient at it one needs to develop the specific fine motor skills, yet is not hard to learn. These skills and those hand tool joinery skills mutually reinforce each other. It is my belief that by hand honing one can become a more proficient woodworker (don't take it as a causality, but rather as a correlation).

Just my 2 pence,

DC

 

[Colin C]

I will say this ( dont all shout no to once :roll: )

I used to sharpen by hand and did for a good few years but did not get consist edges, with can be a real PITA if you are using that tool on some thing like Tulipwood ( not the builds type ) or Ebony.

After talk to friend I worked with that used an Eclipse jig ( which I did poke fun of ) but I ask him about it and he let me read Mr Kingshot's book on sharpening and he used one. Having seen him at Ally Pally and had a lot of respect for him, I gave it a try ( go one for 50p at a car boot)

I now get sharp edges all the time so as I now work for myself it saves me time, which will do me

I have been doing my trade for only 23 years ( a short time compared to some )but I think I dont do to bad
Like it has been said lot of times there is no right or wrong way, just what works.

I will now get off my soap box

 

[JesseM]

But ultimately, my objection to guides is philosophical. We are here in the Hand Tools (capitalized, thank you) forum, which goal is to promote their use. I think most of us would not go back to rip lumber exclusively with hand saws, a bandsaw is faster, more precise, more consistent, less tiring, and relieves the worker from what is basically an ingrate task. But we strive to cut our dovetails, tenons, mortises, etc. by hand, and in the process develop the motor coordination and finesse required to accomplish these tasks to a high level. Honing by hand works hand in hand with that philosophy, because in order to become proficient at it one needs to develop the specific fine motor skills, yet is not hard to learn. These skills and those hand tool joinery skills mutually reinforce each other. It is my belief that by hand honing one can become a more proficient woodworker (don't take it as a causality, but rather as a correlation).
DC

But this analogy would seem to imply that rather than using a wooden or steel plane we would hold the plane blade with our hands so that we could get that exact angle we desired. No more HAF. No fussy setup time. :wink:

In case it is not understood I am joking.

 

[bugbear]

But this analogy would seem to imply that rather than using a wooden or steel plane we would hold the plane blade with our hands so that we could get that exact angle we desired. No more HAF. No fussy setup time. :wink:

In case it is not understood I am joking.

And as for those fussy fences and depth stops on plough planes...



BugBear (also exagerating for comic effect)

 

[Anonymous]

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[Alf]

Hmm, there's an idea - throw out those stupid planes everybody, ADZE time is coming 8)

So kiss your toes goodbye...

 

[mudman]

Not forgetting those really cool Japanese spear planes. :wink:

 

[bugbear]

So kiss your toes goodbye...

That was a Carpenter's song, wasn't it? (*)

BugBear

2 Puns in one joke - result!

 

[Alf]

<CB>Oh, good grief.</CB>

Cheers, Alf :lol: